How often do you buy another double

[Milton Starr]

I want to know what yall think is a reasonable time to wait to buy another double . I mean I think here lately I been on a gun buying binge :rotf: .. But I cant stop from wanting to buy a double barrel Damascus gun every time I see one listed somewhere . I will have my next 10 gauge sxs middle of next month . Its been on layaway since January :crying: . I just love a old sxs gun and shooting a Damascus barreled gun because of the misconception about them . Its like being part of a small group or dedicated group who know the truth . That these old guns can still have a lot of life left in them .

btw im looking at a hammerless bonehill 10 bore . Figured it would go nicely with my hammer gun but I am having a rifle built in may so im tapped out till after that engagement .

[Milton Starr]

Im trying to space my buying out about every 3 or 4 months till I get a respectable collection

[Robert Rambler]

As soon as the better half isn't paying attention and I can sneak it into the house!!:rotf::rotf::rotf::shock:

[Bill Murphy]

Might buy one today.

[Dean Romig]

We can just buy, buy, buy any decent gun that comes along or we can wait, curb the appetite a bit and wait til that really special one is available.

[Russ Jackson]

What kind of a silly question is that ...........:rotf::rotf:

[Rich Anderson]

I buy one every time I want one. Last year I bought 10, it was a very good year:)

[Russ Jackson]

I buy one every time I want one. Last year I bought 10, it was a very good year:)

:bowdown::bowdown:

[Rick Losey]

a respectable mourning period for your dear departed cash? :rotf:

if its one I really want and its in the budget I'd go for it

but as Dean says - you can't buy them all- I like the next to be an interesting addition - I see them nearly every day either in a shop or online that I like and think about, but in general it would need to be something I don't have.

then again - i am a shooter, not a collector - so each needs a use.

[Ronald Moore]

I but whatever I like and want. I have been blessed in the stock market. I like all doubles although I have shot any of the 50 I have, I just like to look at the.

Ron

[Dave Noreen]

I purchased a lot more often in my 40s and 50s than I have in my 60s. Running out of gunroom space.

[ForrestArmstrong]

....I think here lately I been on a gun buying binge.....Ditto, ebbs & flows with me but never stops completely.

[charlie cleveland]

it s hard to control the buying urge.i dont think any of us that love these old doubles will ever be able to control the buying urge..the way i try to control my buying urges is to be flat broke.. charlie

[Milton Starr]

Charlie im flat broke from buying doubles :rotf:
I may buy another one this year . Though my rifle build is about to drain my funding , gunsmiths aren't cheap :p . Though I have guidelines one what type of doubles I buy , only 10 bores with 32" so my market isn't as big as 12 gauge shooters and such . Though if I find a nice 16 ga someday ill get one

[Andy Kelley]

Yesterday ,in the pouring rain I drove 4 hours one way to pick up a 0 frame VH 16ga. Only last week I bought an early A grade Fox 12.ga. I am sick.... I need a twelve step meeting! Do they have a methodone. type drug for those of us terribly addicted to doubles!

[Mills Morrison]

More often than I need but less than I want

[will evans]

Charlie im flat broke from buying doubles :rotf:
I may buy another one this year . Though my rifle build is about to drain my funding , gunsmiths aren't cheap :p . Though I have guidelines one what type of doubles I buy , only 10 bores with 32" so my market isn't as big as 12 gauge shooters and such . Though if I find a nice 16 ga someday ill get one

Hey Milton,

Have you found a Grade 3 LC Smith 10ga with 32" barrels to add to your collection yet? I know where one is that might be seeking a new home.

I wouldn't call myself a "collector", either. I like to shoot them, but I'm finding it difficult to shoot more than one at a time.

[Rich Anderson]

Milton what are you having built in a rifle? I just received a custom built Ruger #1. I put some pics of it in the Off Topic section. Between rifles and shotguns I'm gun poor but I have sold three shotguns this year. The Southern is always good for adding to the arsnal:rotf:

[Milton Starr]

Im having a Rifle built in 585 HE . Its a wildcat cartridge well in a sense you cant make brass from other cases . So technically I guess its a new caliber . shoots a .585 diameter 750gr bullet @ 2600-2700 fps . I plan on keeping it around 2300 fps though . Its just a project ive had on the back burner for awhile and the gunsmith emailed the other day telling me my barrel finally came in all I have to do is send in the action and he can get it started .

It will probably be august before I buy another double but my E.C Green will be here in a few weeks so im looking forward to getting it and shooting it . Instead of buying another double I am thinking of Sending my cg bonehill to Brad B and having the barrels rebrowned and action rejointed . probably leave the wood alone its 50% glue anyhow :rotf:

[Milton Starr]

Milton what are you having built in a rifle? I just received a custom built Ruger #1. I put some pics of it in the Off Topic section. Between rifles and shotguns I'm gun poor but I have sold three shotguns this year. The Southern is always good for adding to the arsnal:rotf:

I like the wood on the original rifle that the #1 is based off Farquharson rifle
how the forend dips in somewhat and tapers off . If I had a #1 which I looked at before id like it setup like this http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Sporting%20Rifles/Farquharson%20Rifle/Farquharson%20Rifle.html

though I would want a 510 cal so probably 50-140 or 50 Alaskan . I havnt seen any #1 stocks I like so I never bought one

[Rich Anderson]

Milton your rifle sounds interesting. What will you use for cases if they cant be formed from an existing case? What action will you be using? I have a couple of wildcats but the cases are either fireformed in the case of the Ackley Improved or necked down as in the 416 Taylor.

[Milton Starr]

Its custom made brass order from Betram by the cartridge designer and rifle builder . He order 4,000 cases and will place orders periodically . Ive been told the cases are good to 20 reloadings or more depends on how its loaded . I am using a savage action . Its a belted straight wall cases . About the size of 28 ga shell but 3 1/4 " actually its a tad bigger . To modify the action and cost of barreling an chambering is only 600$ . He can build on just about any action . Sorry if I got long winded .

[Milton Starr]

heres a pic of the case if its the middle one . 300 win mag on the right

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae165/17ms_10ga/CAM00152.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

that things going to give somebody a head ache when they pull the trigger..please post a picture of the rifle when its finished...charlie

[Milton Starr]

Charlie I will post pics . It has a 180-200gr case capacity . Its got a little more velocity than that 577 trex . I want to bag a hog with it or a deer this year :shock: . I plan on casting my own bullets 650gr probably something like a swc or wide flat nose . they don't make 585 gas checks but ive read a lubed felt 24ga wad will do the trick also . I want to use the barnes solids but I think they might quit making it . To load in the mag I need a nose length of .350" .

Charlie you better bet your shoulder its getting a muzzlebrake . Its going to be a heavy rifle with a 32 " 1.350" straight cylinder barrel .

[Rich Anderson]

I'm surprised it will fit in a Svage 99 action and that the action can handel the pressures. It will make a great Hog gun and I'd use it for deer as well. I love my 416 Taylor in the thick stuff for Whitetails when the shots are 100 yards or closer esp in the thick cedar swamps of the Upper Pennisula.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

"I can resist everything except temptation", Oscar Wilde
I just had in my hands a little Belgian guild gun, 16ga, st. grip, under 6lbs--haven't bought it yet, but there are voices in my head------

[George Davis]

My brother (commercial pilot) received the best answer to this question year ago from his father-in-law. During a family gathering his new bride complained about his growing collection of shotguns and his father-in-law answered the critical question with the following; honey do you want him to collect stewardesses or shotguns? His new bride immediately turned and told him he could have all the shotguns he wanted and now 35 years later he has an extensive collection of fine double barrel guns and the same bride.

[Mills Morrison]

That is a good response George.

[wayne goerres]

Savage 99 action? ?????

[Rich Anderson]

I have sold 3 so far this year to be fiscally enriched for the Southern:)

[Milton Starr]

Im going with a Montana rifle co PH action . The smith said he would sell me a barreled action for 1k flat . which is a deal since the action is 1200$ and a barrel job is 600$ . the Montana actions are basically pre 64 Winchesters well the Ph is a scaled up version , I think it has a bolt diameter of .850" or something its pretty huge . and it comes with the bolt face already designed for the .640" rim diameter which is what a 505 gibbs uses . I meant savage 111 action but its a staggered feed . So im just going to sell it off to someone who wants a deer rifle . Probably get a stock from joel russo or a xlr chassis . Im a fan of the new rifle chassis that are coming out . If any one else is interested in a 585 HE rifle let me know . they can be built on a variety of actions . You just have to load it accordingly . some actions can only handle so much bolt thrust .


George I tell people , im going to collect and buy things might as well be something I love and isn't self destructive . I mean Im in my 20s and it seems like most people just want to drink or do drugs . Not me though I just want enjoy my guns and shoot them as much as possible and add to my collection .

[Eldon Goddard]

Milt your not the only one. I am glad to see more people my age enjoying old guns most people I know just want glocks, ars, and aks. Not that there is anything wrong with that but I wonder what the future of these guns are when so few of us younger gun enthusiast enjoy them. That 585 HE sounds like a hell of a gun but my .458 lott is enough for me until I can get my hands on a double 577 nitro anyways.

[Milton Starr]

Eldon I had originally planned on getting A 577 nitro But then I got ahold of the Gunsmith Ed Hubel and he turned me on to his 585 HE . It is 500-600 fps faster than the 577 nitro express . same bullets (.585) . theres also the 600 overkill . Ive learned get whatever caliber you can get brass for in these big bores . Im setting mine up as a prone position rifle its going to be really heavy probably over 15lbs maybe 20lbs . You could build a 577 on a sxs shotgun action . kynoch 577 nitro ammo is only loaded to 35k psi or so low pressure really . I had a dangerous game hunter tell me the 577 calibers can over penetrate and hit a animal you didn't intentionally want to pay for . Like he was on a cape buffalo hunt and took a broadside shot with his 577 and it passed completely through and went into another and the bullet stopped in the hide on the far side of the second cape buffalo ! My 585 He cases are only 3$ a case which isn't bad since they almost last forever and theres a good supply . Oh yeah you can use gibbs cases to form them by swagging a belt onto the case but gibbs brass isn't made like cheytac/HE brass , not as thick in the web area .

I got 2 weeks or so and my Edwinson 10 ga will be here cant wait to see her . I mainly got it because I read Edwinson was a well known gunmaker and I don't ever see any of his doubles for sell . probably because they made guns in low numbers . like mine is only serial # 34xx . unlike Americans shotguns from the same period in the 100k range serial # . I prefer I brit guns I guess :bigbye:

[Milton Starr]

Im not much into pistols but if I was going to get one it would be a 1902 colt . Don't like ar15s and such . not into shooting semi autos . might be because im left handed

[Rich Anderson]

Milton if you and Eldon are in your 20's then my hat is off to you fine young gentelman:bowdown: For a crusty old guy like me it's nice to know there are young people out there who can appreciate these fine old guns vs the Glocks, AR's AK's and such.

Milton I hope someday you can get to Africa and use your rifle on a Buff. Go when you can, DON'T put it off. You won't be sorry you went.

[Milton Starr]

COB ive thought of it before , going to Africa and such but Honesty I would rather go to Wyoming or Montana and hunt grizzly or elk and do some horseback riding . And thanks for your complement I don't know about Eldon but I am 21 . You ever will never see me buy a benelli or anything as such . My brother says I have the mentality of a 90 year old man haha . Well only when it comes to my shotguns , I like modern and old rifles alike though . I love old sxs mainly though because im a die hard 10 ga fanatic and if you want a nice 10 gauge that doesn't look like a fence post then youll going to have to get something made most likely before the 1930s . my 10 bores both being pre 1898s . now I have owned modern 10 ga guns . 3 modern 10 bores and 2 Damascus guns .

[Eldon Goddard]

Thanks C.O.B. I try to convert everyone I can young or old. I think I have one convert but he is a 20 gauge fan and I don't know if he wants to take the jump for the investment that a Parker 20 is. Milton the English are pretty smart I have shot some rounds out here when it was relatively cool for us high 90's and have had some cartridges stick in the chamber. Shot them a couple months later when summer was over with no problem. So I am a believer in the lower pressures for dangerous game guns. Ill be 27 the end of this month... where does the time go.

[Milton Starr]

Eldon with the way medical tech is advancing everyday , doesn't look like the future is going to be bad for us lol .
Also I don't think most people want to learn about Damascus and how to tell if a old gun is a shooter or a wall and hanger and such things . It takes a special group of people to shoot and collect these old guns . From what ive seen people on this forum and nice and respectful to each other , they talk like their a family haha . I might try and find a parkers by the q4 of this year . I will have more money then , im looking at one that's been for sale for awhile but hope maybe if it doesn't sell the price will drop doubtful though . at least in the Nevada heat yall don't have all this humidity . sometimes here it will get 110-115 degrees with 80-90% humidty !

[Milton Starr]

Cob before I forget , My dream hunt would be a Zebra . I mean stable would be a second runner up but something about a zebra hunt fascinates me . Id be happy even for one of those Texas zebra hunts .

[Eldon Goddard]

sometimes here it will get 110-115 degrees with 80-90% humidty !
That sounds terrible, the only thing I like about our summer weather is the very low humidity year round really. It is great for guns you do not have to worry about rust very much.

[Rich Anderson]

Milton I have been very fortunate to have hunted both Alaska and Africa multiple times and either place is a life changeing event.

A Zebra hunt is a challenge, those that don't know better downplay it as shooting a horse. they are smart and tough animals and a worthy trophy. I used a custom built rifle on a Ruger tang safty action in 416 Taylor using a Swift 400gr A-Frame and wasn't overgunned.

When increasing your Parker collection buy the highest condition gun you can, you'll pay more now but in he long run it will appreciate more. I like the small bores myself but hey I'm an old fart:rotf:

[Steve McCarty]

I bought a new/old double two months ago and it got pretty hot around here. I've been ordered to lay off the shotgun buying. To keep from having to dig a foxhole in my living room that is what I have done.

I enjoy my gun collection which numbers well over 200 guns of all kinds. While it might be strange to some to call guns charming, I find them somehow alluring. I think it is their history that drives and the knowledge that someone in the past, some times in the distant past, held and used that gun too.

[Steve McCarty]

Milton I have been very fortunate to have hunted both Alaska and Africa multiple times and either place is a life changeing event.

A Zebra hunt is a challenge, those that don't know better downplay it as shooting a horse. they are smart and tough animals and a worthy trophy. I used a custom built rifle on a Ruger tang safty action in 416 Taylor using a Swift 400gr A-Frame and wasn't overgunned.

When increasing your Parker collection buy the highest condition gun you can, you'll pay more now but in he long run it will appreciate more. I like the small bores myself but hey I'm an old fart:rotf:

I too have been to Africa. Zebra are not treated as pets. They are not a horse and no one walks up to one to stroke it's nose. One morning I watched a few kick a wandering jackal to death. It tried to join them at the rim of a watering hole. The Zebra took an exception, and kicked it to bits. If a zebra bites it'll take out a chunk of flesh the size of an over ripe apple, or it'll eviscerate you with their sharp hooves. Best to give them room. They look wonderful! They herd and do indeed dazzle you with their stripes and at a distance the black and white strips blend and they look sort of grayish.

[charlie cleveland]

i too agree there is something about an old shotgun or reifle that is very appealing to me.i can admire them for long periods of time..aiming and pointing at imaginary targets..wondering who had this gun before me what type of game had been taken with her...yep i think all of us who like guns are really dreamers to some extent... charlie

[Milton Starr]

I too have been to Africa. Zebra are not treated as pets. They are not a horse and no one walks up to one to stroke it's nose. One morning I watched a few kick a wandering jackal to death. It tried to join them at the rim of a watering hole. The Zebra took an exception, and kicked it to bits. If a zebra bites it'll take out a chunk of flesh the size of an over ripe apple, or it'll eviscerate you with their sharp hooves. Best to give them room. They look wonderful! They herd and do indeed dazzle you with their stripes and at a distance the black and white strips blend and they look sort of grayish.

Thanks for the story ! Are you a member on the accurate reloading forum ?
Its mostly about big bores and hunting African game . Its where I met my gunsmith

[Steve McCarty]

Thanks for the story ! Are you a member on the accurate reloading forum ?
Its mostly about big bores and hunting African game . Its where I met my gunsmith

Don't think so. I'll have to check it out. My big bores are limited to 45/70s, 577 Snider, and 450/577 Martini Henry. I've got about half a dozen 45/70's new and old. Reloaded some hot loads for my Ruger No 1. A sporting rifle. It is light. With the 405 half jacketed Remington bullet in front of something like 40 grns (forgot) of 3031, it'll take your head off, and that's just the shooter!

I think one can load one to about 450/400 numbers.

I'll check the reloading site. Thanks for the heads up.

[Milton Starr]

Ive also pondered getting a 45/70 but it would have to be a sharps or something like that . With my 585 I plan on shooting a 650gr brass solid @ 2700 fps . should be plenty of oomph lol . I also wanted a 577 snider before but wasn't into the look of the rifle . you could always ream that #1 to 45-120 and load it smokeless !

[wayne goerres]

40 grs of 3031 is a pretty light load in a 45/70. You wont gain much by rechambering to 45/120 with smokeless powder. My 400/450 uses 60grs of 3031 with a 400gr jacked bullet. Mine is a double so it probable weighs a little more than a Ruger no 1.

[Rich Anderson]

At one time I had a Marlin in 45/70. If memory serves me I used 50-52 gr of 3031 and a 350gr JHP. I had a 2.5x scope on a pivot mount and for a woods deer rifle it was awesome. I sold it off when I got the 416 Taylor.

[wayne goerres]

Bet you kind of wished you had kept that one. those were nice guns for brush hunting.

[Steve McCarty]

Ive also pondered getting a 45/70 but it would have to be a sharps or something like that . With my 585 I plan on shooting a 650gr brass solid @ 2700 fps . should be plenty of oomph lol . I also wanted a 577 snider before but wasn't into the look of the rifle . you could always ream that #1 to 45-120 and load it smokeless !

Wow! That is one heck of a load! 585 bullet at 2700 fps? That's .458 numbers. More. I think. A .458 will push a bullet that heavy to about 2200, I think.

I own one of those Axtell 1877 Sharps rifles. Have yet to shoot it! It is a pretty thing. I called the company, before they went broke, and asked them if I could shoot smokeless in it. They reported that it was only proofed for BP. They also said that they are a lot stronger than is the original Sharps. Anyway, if I ever get around to shooting it, I'll load it to moderate smokeless levels. I like shooting BP tho. Might try 777.

[Steve McCarty]

40 grs of 3031 is a pretty light load in a 45/70. You wont gain much by rechambering to 45/120 with smokeless powder. My 400/450 uses 60grs of 3031 with a 400gr jacked bullet. Mine is a double so it probable weighs a little more than a Ruger no 1.

I cannot recall what the load was I used in my 45/70 for the Ruger No 1. I do recall using 3031. I usually load the middle load as recorded in a reloading manual.

I have a friend who hunts with Lord Randolph Churchill's 400/450! I've seen the rifle, beautiful. Cased. As I write I cannot recall the maker. The owner had about a eight or ten wonderful double rifles.

[Eldon Goddard]

I have a friend who hunts with Lord Randolph Churchill's 400/450! I've seen the rifle, beautiful. Cased. As I write I cannot recall the maker. The owner had about a eight or ten wonderful double rifles.
That would be something to see.
My .458 lott will push a 500 grain bullet 2300 and the .460 weatherby will go about 2600. I heard the early factory ammo for the .460 weatherby went as fast as 2700 but they turned it down.

[Rich Anderson]

Bet you kind of wished you had kept that one. those were nice guns for brush hunting.

There have been times I wish I had it but the Taylor is a real nice rifle and will do much more than the 45/70 is capable of.

[wayne goerres]

You can shoot smokeless loads in that sharps but you should stick with nitro for black loads. 5744 is a pretty good powder to work with. Load to trap door pressures. Can you post some pics of your sharps.

[Steve McCarty]

That would be something to see.
My .458 lott will push a 500 grain bullet 2300 and the .460 weatherby will go about 2600. I heard the early factory ammo for the .460 weatherby went as fast as 2700 but they turned it down.

I have fired a Whby 460 once, and from the bench. I embarrassed myself when the end of the bolt came back and hit me square on the nose, which filled my eyes with tears. I couldn't help it. When I shoot really big bore rifles I stand up and allow by torso to take the recoil.

I enjoy shooting H&H 375's and don't find them punishing. Of course when you actually shoot at hair you don't notice the recoil at all.

I doubt I'll ever go back to Africa. Around here elk are thick, I mean in my neighborhood! They are a pest. Deer too. I have never even shot at an elk tho. During elk season the woods sound like an infantry attack. Most guys, however; go after them with a bow in the earlier season and the success rate is high.

[Steve McCarty]

You can shoot smokeless loads in that sharps but you should stick with nitro for black loads. 5744 is a pretty good powder to work with. Load to trap door pressures. Can you post some pics of your sharps.

Here is the Axtell:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Axtell%201877%20Sharps/Axtell1877Sharps009-1.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/GermVMA211/media/Axtell%201877%20Sharps/Axtell1877Sharps009-1.jpg.html)

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa23/GermVMA211/Axtell%201877%20Sharps/Axtell1877Sharps001.jpg (http://s200.photobucket.com/user/GermVMA211/media/Axtell%201877%20Sharps/Axtell1877Sharps001.jpg.html)

Critics complain that the Axtell's aren't up to Shiloh Sharps quality. Mine looks okay to me. I can see some slight flaws in the inletting, but not much.

[Bill Murphy]

That is not an ugly gun. Can we see a few more pictures?

[wayne goerres]

Dam fine English sharps (1877). Looks pretty good to me.

[Steve McCarty]

I can take some more pics of the rifle, of course. I don't have many really fine guns, a few Parkers, a Winchester 73 and nice model 70 in 270 and then some old double barreled shotguns, but the Axtell Sharps is my only gun that catches one's breath. I don't think the original owner shot it. Bought it used at Martin Rettings in Culver City, CA.

[Milton Starr]

Wow! That is one heck of a load! 585 bullet at 2700 fps? That's .458 numbers. More. I think. A .458 will push a bullet that heavy to about 2200, I think.

I own one of those Axtell 1877 Sharps rifles. Have yet to shoot it! It is a pretty thing. I called the company, before they went broke, and asked them if I could shoot smokeless in it. They reported that it was only proofed for BP. They also said that they are a lot stronger than is the original Sharps. Anyway, if I ever get around to shooting it, I'll load it to moderate smokeless levels. I like shooting BP tho. Might try 777.

I think the 458 win mag is 2100 fps with 500gr , 458 lott 2300 and the 460 wby 2600 . Like Eldon said it used to be loaded to 2700 fps but I think that was a 70k psi load they loaded down to 2600 fps . the 270 wby is loaded to 70k psi , highest pressure commercial rifle round . with my 585 I can load to nitro express levels 750gr @ 2000 fps . or wild loads to 2600 fps . Steve im shooting pyrodex in a muzzleloader and it doesn't have a large cloud of smoke though I hear 777 is easy to clean up . I seen c sharps sales a action which would be fun to build a custom rifle on .