11-Gauge Parkers

[Richard B. Hoover]

The Parker 11-Gauge is sort of the Ophan Child of the Parker World. I think a lot of this has been due to confusion that has come about from some of the Early Catalog Descriptions of the wads to use; early magazine articles combined with the fact that many very early Parker 12-Gauge Lifters were chambered for Parker 11B or Parker 12B brass shells and some of the Parker 11-gauge guns were chambered for Eley Paper 11-Gauge shells or UMC 11 brass shells, but very many appear to have been also chambered for Parker 12A brass shells. These ideas are based on some measurements Bill Furnish, George Flaim and I made almost 20 years ago and on a careful reading of a number of entries in the 1872 and 1873 Parker Order Books. It is also clear that there are a number of 11-gauge Parkers that were not included in the list of 11's shown in The Parker Story. Several of these guns are shown as 10 or 12-gauge guns in the Serialization. The only way to know for sure is to inspect the barrels and accurately measure the internal bore/chamber dimensions.

I am trying to get more data to see if this hypothesis is fully supported by the early lifters. I plan to bring my bore and chamber gauges and micrometer to the SXS. I would greatly appreciate it if you would allow me to measure any of your early shotshells and the internal dimensions of the bores of your early guns for an Article I am writing. I can measure the bores and chambers of any gun from a 10-ga to a 28-ga. I would also like to measure some later period (1880-1900) 12- and 10-ga Parkers to determine the degree to which these barrels could have been overbored.

As large as the PGCA has grown since 1996, it may now be possible to completely solve many of the mysteries of the Parker 11-gauge guns.

Your help would be greatly appreciated. Please call me at 256-337-4082 if you want to chat. I am always interested in talking about these wonderful guns.

Richard B. Hoover

[Dean Romig]

Richard, do you have any specific serial number ranges in mind to include in your statistical data recording or any inclusive years of manufacture?

[Richard B. Hoover]

Richard, do you have any specific serial number ranges in mind to include in your statistical data recording or any inclusive years of manufacture?

Dean,

Thanks a million for the Parker Pages Articles.

Regarding serial numbers, the ranges of greatest interest are:

1. Any T-Latch or Charles Parker Maker guns
2. 11-ga guns between #2149 and #5287 as shown in TPS pg #1004
3. Parker #46740 --- I would love to hear from anyone who has ever seen this gun.

Based on some of the guns of Bill Furnish, I think there may even be 11-ga Parkers with serial numbers as high as 15,000. If anyone suspects they have an 11-ga in higher serial number I would love to see it.

I would also like to measure some 10-ga and 12-ga Parkers made before and after March, 1892. This will show how widely overbored the pre-1892 12-ga Parkers were (see TPS Pg. 517). This stock book notation also indicates that Parker made their bore measurements "midway down the barrel" rather than "9 inches in front of the breech" as was the practice in the England and Belgium Proof Houses. I plan to follow the Parker system for making these measurements.

By the way, I spoke with Dan Bromley of the Cody Museum today. They have an 11-ga Boyd & Tyler #237 made on July 21, 1868. They also have an 11-ga Delaney from London, England. But this is a muzzle loader that was made in the early 1860's.

It is not clear to me that they have any 11-ga Parkers in their collection. However, their computer list two, but they do not have bore and chamber dimensions for these guns. The exact serial numbers were not disclosed, s the guns were on loan. However, Dan did tell me that both of these Parkers were above Serial #6000. One of them has a replaced stock, barrels and trigger, so it is unlikely it is an11-gauge Parker. The other could not be verified by the Stock Book, no numbers above #5287 are included in the list given in The Parker Story.

Thanks for your help,

Richard

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Richard, I will have a few low grade hammer guns to display, you can check these if you like, I also will bring my 11 gauge, I have a letter with it, think the ser# is in the 3000,s Are you interested in measuring very early back action guns, I have a couple, 029 and 97 both are 12-b I think, the 12-b shell fits nicely, gary

[John Davis]

Gary, could you possibly bring your 12B shell to the Southern? Thanks, John

[Richard B. Hoover]

Richard, I will have a few low grade hammer guns to display, you can check these if you like, I also will bring my 11 gauge, I have a letter with it, think the ser# is in the 3000,s Are you interested in measuring very early back action guns, I have a couple, 029 and 97 both are 12-b I think, the 12-b shell fits nicely, gary

Gary,

Thanks. Yes, I very much want to measure these very Early Parker's. I may have already measured 029 and think it was an 11-gauge--if it came from Bill Furnish. But I may be confusing it with 049. Looking forward to seeing you at SXS.

Richard

[Richard B. Hoover]

Gary, could you possibly bring your 12B shell to the Southern? Thanks, John

John,

I will be bringing a Parker 11B shell that you may want to see.

Richard

[Richard B. Hoover]

Richard, I will have a few low grade hammer guns to display, you can check these if you like, I also will bring my 11 gauge, I have a letter with it, think the ser# is in the 3000,s Are you interested in measuring very early back action guns, I have a couple, 029 and 97 both are 12-b I think, the 12-b shell fits nicely, gary

Gary,

What is the serial number of your 11-gauge? How is it chambered?

Thanks,

Richard

[Mills Morrison]

I have a lifter that may be an 11 gauge. It is being worked on but I will try to get it back before the southern. I am also interested in parkers with 12 gauge chambers and 11gauge bores. There was some discussion of this phenomenen in a recent double gun journal

[Todd Kaltenbach]

Richard,
This is the 11 gauge gun we talked about. It letters as an 11 gauge made in 1875. I bought the gun from Allan Swanson a year or two ago. The barrels measure ~.751"

[Dean Romig]

Yes, 3967 is among the 11 gauge Parkers in the list I received from Austin a few years ago.
Charlie Price, Richard Hoover, Austin Hogan and one or two others had been compiling data on 11 gauge Parkers for some years.

This is the list I received from Austin.



.

[Richard B. Hoover]

I have a lifter that may be an 11 gauge. It is being worked on but I will try to get it back before the southern. I am also interested in parkers with 12 gauge chambers and 11gauge bores. There was some discussion of this phenomenen in a recent double gun journal

Mills,

I wrote about this in my DGJ articles in Winter 2008 and Spring 2009. Was there something more recently. If so, I want to see the article.

Thanks,

Richard

[Richard B. Hoover]

Yes, 3967 is among the 11 gauge Parkers in the list I received from Austin a few years ago.
Charlie Price, Richard Hoover, Austin Hogan and one or two others had been compiling data on 11 gauge Parkers for some years.

This is the list I received from Austin.



.

Dean,

Thanks for posting this list. It appears to be based only on the Stock Books. There are others that are not in the Stock Books as well as 11-gauge Parker's that are listed in the Serialization as either 10-ga or 12-ga Parker. This can not be entirely explained based on the chambering since some of these guns (such as 3561) were clearly chambered for 11 paper shells. Chuck also just confirmed my suspicion that the last entry in this list is also in error. The stock book entry for gun lists it as a 16-gauge, not an 11 - the 16 was simply mistakenly read as "11".

Richard

[Dean Romig]

There are a couple of oddities to that last serial number. What sort of action is indicated by the "A"?

[Richard B. Hoover]

Parker 46740?????

Has anyone in PGCA ever seen this gun?

What does the "A" mean??

What does the Fox say???

[Richard B. Hoover]

Richard, do you have any specific serial number ranges in mind to include in your statistical data recording or any inclusive years of manufacture?

Dean,

In your Album you have several photos of a beautiful Grade 2 Lifter in 11-gauge in an Original Parker case. Could you send me the Serial Number of that puppy? Also, I have not yet received the latest Issue of Parker Pages and the Member List. Would appreciate it if you could send them when you get a chance. I need some phone numbers.

By the way, I was delighted that I just got my Research Letter from Chuck on my beautiful new 11-Ga #4005. My Thanks go out to Chuck for doing this so quickly and to Charlie for making it possible for me to get this great gun.
I will shoot some photos this weekend and post them and some info on this Parker soon.

[Dean Romig]

Richard,

I think you're referring to John Hansen's Parker - a gun you have made reference to in the past.
In case you can't read it, the serial number is B2505

I'll check with Mary about your "new member package".

Best, Dean



.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Richard, I a not at home now and will have to answer that question when I get home gary

[Richard B. Hoover]

Richard,

I think you're referring to John Hansen's Parker - a gun you have made reference to in the past.
In case you can't read it, the serial number is B2505

I'll check with Mary about your "new member package".

Best, Dean



.

Dean,

Sorry. I got excited because it indicated it was an 11-ga lifter. Of course B-2505 is a 12-ga with 30" barrels. It is cased and chambered for Parker 11-B shells. I have never seen an 11-ga in an original case with shells. Do you know if anyone has one or has ever heard of one still in existence? If anyone has one, A post of the gun and shell headstamp would be fantastic.


Richard

[Dean Romig]

Richard... PM sent.

[Grantham Forester]

I have one- the serial number is 1346, and all numbers match- it is also 1.2500" across the firing pin holes on center- could this be a No. 3 frame of that era. Mine is apparently the first design Lifter- the lower than 2200 SN means that no records may exist for it as to date of manufacture, correct?

[Richard B. Hoover]

Grantham,

Are you coming to the Southern SXS?

[Grantham Forester]

I am sorry, but I do not know what that is. For the last year I have not yet received a association magazine or newsletter- but before I get too far afield, I am a Forum only member, and perhaps you need to be a paid annual member to get that data- But thank you for asking me. GF

[Dean Romig]

Grantham join the PGCA as an annual member for only $40 and you'll be very glad you did.

Click on the link below and read about the Southern SXS

http://www.deepriver.net/#!sxs-classic/c154b

[Richard B. Hoover]

Todd,

That is a great gun. It appears that Your micrometer is reading 0.752 left and 0.731 right. Does your mic have an extension or. Is it reading right at the muzzle? In this case it suggests it may be cylinder bore on left and choked 0.021 on right? Can you get measurements of the. Barrels 9 to 15" from breech? And what about the chambers. Can you get measurements? If you have no suitable bore gauge, can you tell us What is the fit of a modern 12-ga and a modern 10-ga shell?

Thanks,

Richard