Another hint that Parker made their own barrels

[Joe Wood]

Ran across this reference to Parker making their own barrels. Check out page 681 of this Google book: http://books.google.com/books?id=bowCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA680&dq=%22Williams+%26+Powell%22+gunmaker&cd=8#v=onepage&q=&f=false .

Interesting reading.

[Tim Sheldon]

If they did, wouldn't the evidence be overwhelming? I'd say the Damascus guns came from Belgium, maybe some of the Fluid Steel Guns came in from local companies that Parker Bros. partnered with or set up some sort of business relationship so that legally they could market the barrels as being made by Parker Bros. Just an idea, shoot'en from the hip.

Tim

[Drew Hause]

W.A. King said they did in 1912

The testimony of W.A. King representing the Parker Gun Co.

http://books.google.com/books?id=QDkvAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA900&dq=damascus+barrels&lr=#PPA893,M1

Mr. King. I can speak only for our own company in so far as wages go. For instance, on the question of barrels, Mr. Hunter informed your committee that some years ago some of the manufacturers of this country attempted to make barrels. We made some barrels: we built an addition to the factory, put in some up-to-date machinery, and brought some men from Belgium to show our blacksmiths how to do it. Wo had to pay our blacksmiths not less than 32 cents an hour, up to 40 cents, and we gave it up, because the highest wages paid the Belgian blacksmiths for exactly the same grade of barrel are 11 cents per hour. That is what is paid to the highest-priced man employed.

Senator Smoot. In Belgium ?

Mr. King, In Belgium: yes, sir. That is where all of our barrels are imported from, with the exception of our very high-grade Whipple steel barrels. (?transcription error?)

Senator Lodge. Those are rough-bored barrels.

Mr. King. Rough-bored only.

The Chairman. Do you make any barrels at all?

Mr. King. We make no barrels whatever.

[Drew Hause]

And at least one back action lifter had barrels made in Birmingham

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/19406549/267515410.jpg

I am of the opinion (which is worth little) based on the transition from 3 Iron "Oxford" to 4 and 6 Iron "Turkish" on Grade 3 and up guns, that lifter damascus barrels were from England and top lever barrels were from Belgium.

[Don Kaas]

I would bet "Whipple" steel is "Whitworth" steel...

[Francis Morin]

I would second the learned Mr. Kass' opinion- a typo. Wonder what happened to the addition Mr. King referred to for the barrels? Also curious, to me, his reference to his employees at that point in time as "blacksmiths" if i read this correctly.

LC Smith (the Mr. Hunter mentioned) dealt with Krupp and Whitworth- at least until WW1 era- but also Crucible, Halcomb Steel and Sanderson Bros. Mr. Houchin's book page 387 details that, apparently Crucible bought both Halcomb and Sanderson Bros.

No mention of Carpenter Steel (Latrobe PA.) in the Houchin's book, but in Lt. Col. Brophy's 1981 book on Smith plans and specs. Carpenter Steel is the main "call-out" for the various parts machined from tool steel(s) and not 1020.

As a "amateur metalurgist" I have always been fascinated by the various barrel steel grades Parker and Smith used. I am guessing that they are were the same basic AISI nickel steel. Would a set of Acme steel barels on a CHE have a higher tensile strength (after stress relieving) than those Trojan steel barrels on Parker's workhorse shotgun??

I think, and this is just a pure guesstimate, not grounded in fact, that just as the grade, checkering and finish of the stock wood in a Smith Grade 1 was different than that found on a Monogram, their sales/marketing folks decided to "upgrade" the barrel steel names to convince their customers they were getting better steel and wood when they bought a Monogram or a BHE- just a guess--:rolleyes:

[Drew Hause]

Sanderson Steel was started in England in 1776 and Sanderson Bros. Steel Co. started the 'Syracuse Works' in 1876, supplying Nitro and Crown fluid steel barrels to Hunter Arms starting in 1895, Armor in 1898, and Royal in 1901. Sanderson used the brand name "Sanderson Bros. & Co." and was one of 13 companies that formed Crucible Steel Co. in 1901.
Halcomb Steel Co. opened in 1905, and L.C. was on the Board of Directors. Halcomb supplied London steel for 0 grades and Royal steel for the hammer guns starting in 1907. Crucible Steel bought Halcomb in 1911.
"Crown" was the brand name of the Crown and Cumberland Steel Co., Allegany County, Maryland

[Destry L. Hoffard]

There's a fairly long article that John Davis found and was reprinted in Parker Pages about Parker making their own barrels. I don't know what issue but I'm sure somebody remembers.

DLH

[Austin W Hogan]

Dave Suponski and Larry Frey are experienced tool engineers. We have been passing things around and looking into this with hope of finding first how damascus or twist barrels were turned and bored. Speeds and feeds of cutting tools are dependent on the material being cut; how do you pick a speed and feed for two dissimilar materials twisted together?

There are many Parker barrels with proof marks with serials in the low thousands. Most of these have the barrel flats brazed on indicating the barrels were purchased turned prior to delivery to Parker. King revolutionized barrel finishing with his patented turning process and forging of the flats. The British are thought to have ground the contour on damascus barrels; King's patent has a cutter on the tool post. Turning Parker barrels from rough tubes began somewhere before s/n 3000.

According to John's article, Parker manufactured laminated tubes around the 10 - 15000 serial range. They were laminated in three sections and forged together. We think they may have been marked with P on the flats. There are a few grade 5 laminated barrels that are quite handsome. There are some grade 3 barrels that do look like three pieces of pipe welded together.

There is a discontinuity in the printed word relative to Parker Barrel manufacture in the twentieth century. Parker catalogs contain the statement relative to Acme barrels "we have always made these barrels ourselves" The first Acmes appear at around s/n 134000, or 1906. The testimony before congress was cited as 1912. This could be a scanning font error.

We know that Parker was making barrels in the 1920's from Charlie Parker's story about the visitor's suit being soaked with oil when the boring bit went through the side of a bar being bored.

It is likely that Vulcan barrels were made of a faster cutting steel than higher grades, as it was necessary to turn 40 V barrels a day, or more to maintain production.

It is possible that Trojan barrels were outsourced as there was no variation in length or choke offered, and it was also necessary to make more than 40 Trojan barrels a day to meet production

Best, Austin

[Francis Morin]

Very informative Austin- I have wondered about that as well. How do you set a compund lathe to turn the final contour on somewhat dis-similar ferrous alloyed metals, dis-similar as to free machining characteristics? I also recall the story about the visitor and the oil spray from the barrel boring operation, believe I read about it in my copy of the Peter Johnson book.

Very interesting the data about the need to produce both 40 V grade and later 40 Trojan grade barrels to meet production- I am curious, would that mean 40 individual tubes, or does that mean 40 barrel sets?

:bigbye:

[Dave Suponski]

Francis,In short Kings patent shows a early profile lathe that had a stylus mounted on the rear bedway.This stylus was able to be changed for different tapers to be cut on barrels of different bore size. The cutting tool was moved by rack/pinion gearing. US Patent number 287548

[Francis Morin]

Was it like a early form of a tracer or a pantograph in design- in that you set it for a known run length and the developed taper= cams? eccentrics? to get the "swamped breech" some Damascus barreled guns had? So much to learn, so little time left it seems somedays-:rolleyes:

[Dave Suponski]

The profile bar was more of a contoured plate that a roller rested on.As the carriage traveled along the bedway the roller actuated the rack/pinion that was attatched to the tool post. An all mechanical kinda deal and very ingenious.

[Austin W Hogan]

Parker Production averaged 4200 guns per year before 1930. Some years were less than 2000, but the years following introduction of the top lever, hammerless, V and Trojan had 5000 to 9000 guns produced.

Best, Austin

[John Davis]

PARKER ARCHAEOLOGY
By: John N. Davis

Did Parker Bros. ever make their own figured barrels? That is, did they ever manufacture Damascus, Laminated or Twist steel barrels? Or were these barrels always imported from across the big pond? This is a topic which pops up from time to time for discussion on the PGCA’s web-site forum and has also been addressed in more than one article.

Upon first considering the question, it is easy to assume that the house of Parker did not manufacture its own figured barrels. However, a reading of The Parker Story suggests otherwise. According to the authors of this most definitive work, "Some writers have stated that Damascus barrels were never made in America, and we cannot state with absolute certainty that Parker Brothers actually made Damascus steel barrels in Meriden, but there is a lot of evidence that they did. If Parker made its own Damascus barrels, it was for a relatively short time, as the company soon returned to importing tubes for gun barrels, probably for economic reasons". The evidence pointed to is an article from the Meriden Daily Republican, dated August 14, 1879, and an 1882 Parker Brothers catalogue.

The newspaper article states, “This company has successfully succeeded in making their own steel barrels, which together with other novel and important improvements, make their guns the finest yet introduced among lovers of field and forest sports.” The catalogue reads, “We are the first American manufacturers that have been successful in producing shot gun barrels of the finest and most superior quality.”

While on a recent “dig” of The Chicago Field, I discovered a bit more evidence that Parker Bros.’ gun-making endeavors included the manufacture of their own barrels.

In the November 16, 1878, issue of The Chicago Field, there appeared an article under the heading “American vs. English Guns.” It was written by Captain Ducaigne and was one in a series of replies comparing and contrasting the guns of English make to those of American manufacture. Captain Ducaigne’s article gives a rather lengthy history of the art of gun making in both Europe and America, with part of the discussion centering on America’s ability to compete in the “barrel-making business.” The Captain recites letters he had received from a number of gun-makers in response to his inquiries, including one from Parker Bros. The article reads in pertinent part as follows:

The Messrs. Parker, Meriden, Conn., were early in the field. About their “action” and the quantity of barrels they make, our readers must make up their own minds. They say:
“Yours at hand and noted. We import largely both laminated and Damascus, and also manufacture a very fine laminated – as fine, we think, as any we have ever seen of imported. We have made them about eighteen months. Don’t think the Syracuse makers ever made or attempted to make a gun barrel of any grade.”

Dale Highland then wrote a reply to the good Captain’s article, which appeared in The Chicago Field on March 8, 1879. Mr. Highland took a somewhat more positive view towards America’s ability to compete in the barrel making business and he, too, sought the testimony of experts in the field and quoted the Parkers on the subject of their involvement in this endeavor.

Here is the opinion of Mr. D. B. Wesson, one of America’s most skillful mechanics and enterprising business men - one of the most exacting of employers - one who, under no circumstances, will allow any work to leave his factory that is not perfect in material and workmanship. Mr. Wesson commenced making guns and gun-barrels in the year 1868. He engaged a man, John Blaze, from Birmingham, England, who was considered one of the most skillful barrel forgers of his day. Mr. Wesson made about 400 pairs of barrels of the Damascus pattern, and a figure known as the Wesson pattern. These barrels were made of the very choicest of stock, and the pattern as perfect as possible to make, and received the highest endorsements from the very best judges in this country. Here is the opinion of Mr. Wesson: “Our barrels were regarded by good judges as equal to any made in any country; and I am of the same opinion.”
Mr. Charles Green, of Rochester, N. Y., a practical and skillful gun maker, and patentee and maker of a most excellent breech-loading shot gun says: “I have seen and examined very closely many of the Wesson barrels, and in my opinion the figure is as fine and uniform from breech to muzzle and the barrels as free from any imperfections as any of the best imported barrels I ever saw.”
The Parker Bros., of Meriden, Conn., commenced making twisted barrels in the Spring of 1877. The late Wilbur F. Parker at one time business manger of this enterprising firm, was so well pleased with the barrels manufactured by Mr. Wesson, and knowing of the flattering testimony given these barrels by sportsmen and dealers throughout the country, that he contemplated manufacturing gun barrels, and even engaged the barrel welder who made Mr. Wesson’s barrels after the Wesson firm had given up making guns. But considering the then incomplete state of his gun, and imperfect condition of his machinery and tools, very wisely gave up for the time entering into that branch of the gun business. In an extended conversation with Mr. Parker previous to his departure for Europe, he informed me that one purpose in visiting Europe was to learn the system of building guns there, and that he should especially note during his visit through the barrel making districts the most approved methods of making gun barrels with the view to engage in that branch of the gun business at an early date. On his return home he told me that barrel making in this country was only a question of time, when it would be made a practical and paying investment , and as soon as circumstances would allow he intended to enter into it and thus complete the object of his ambition, to give to American sportsmen a complete American-made gun. His editorial labors on his paper, the American Sportsman (since the Road and Gun), coupled with the multitude of business cares with which he was burdened, so undermined his health that he was obliged to forsake the dream of his life and go to other clime to find that rest so essential to his broken-down system. This rest my friend at last found in the house “not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.” Since his death his brothers have carried into practice the contemplated idea of this master mind, and with what success let his brother Dexter tell.
“Your valued favor received. In reply would say we have made figured barrels for a year and a half. We consider them superior to the imported ones, and have frequent calls for them from our trade in preference to the imported barrels. We prefer not to give our experience in regard to this branch of our business, but can only say we have been to great expense in preparing to make our barrels, and feel rewarded in being able to manufacture barrels that give immense satisfaction.”

So, according to these two articles, based on conversations and correspondence with the brothers Parker, it would seem the Meriden gun-works did in fact produce its own “figured barrels.” It further appears that they offered their customers either barrels of their own make or those of foreign manufacture. How long Parker Bros. continued in this venture remains as yet a mystery. Perhaps the answer lies buried in an aged and yellowing paper somewhere, just waiting to be unearthed.

[Drew Hause]

Wesson's "figured barrel" which is a rather crude 3 Iron crolle

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/20432700/375965620.jpg

(Horace) Smith & Wesson and Daniel B. Wesson

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/20432700/375965611.jpg