More help need interpreting Parker records.

[Ray Masciarella]

The Order Book says a gun is Grade 1. The Stock Book says the same gun is Grade 2. The gun was built as a Grade 2. Does anyone know the expanation as to why the Order Book describes the same gun completely different than the Stock Book? Thx, Ray

[Mark Callanan]

The Order Book says a gun is Grade 1. The Stock Book says the same gun is Grade 2. The gun was built as a Grade 2. Does anyone know the expanation as to why the Order Book describes the same gun completely different than the Stock Book? Thx, Ray


Might just be a mistake??

[Dean Romig]

In actuality, what grade is the gun according to the stamp on the water table, the checkering pattern, and engraving motif?

[Ray Masciarella]

Not sure where the mistake would be. Chuck has confirmed the difference in the stock and order books. So there is no mistake there.

Would be hard to believe that it was a production mistake since the order book describes a completely different gun than the stock book, but I guess anything is possible. It's one heck of a mistake!

[Ray Masciarella]

Dean, it is a grade 2 Based on the factors you list

[Chuck Bishop]

To clarify, the order book lists it as a Quality i 8ga with Laminated barrels. It lists $10 cheaper than the 8ga with Damascus barrels. The stock book lists it D2. Is a Quality i equivalent to a grade 2 gun but with cheaper Laminated barrels? It's possible that Parker didn't have any 8ga Laminated barrels at that time and substituted a grade 2 8ga gun. No one to ask at the factory, everyone's dead.

I'm too lazy now to check but tomorrow, I'll look for Laminated barrels in the stock book and hopefully the stock book will say Lam 1 or Lam 2.

[Dean Romig]

In a hammer gun Laminated steel barrels are the mark of a Quality 1 gun. In the same time period (serial number range) Damascus steel barrels were the mark of Quality 2 and above guns.

Earlier I had asked about the checkering pattern and engraving motif and of the stamps on the water table. Does someone have the gun in their possession whereby he could answer these questions or provide pictures of these three aspects?

[Ray Masciarella]

Dean, the water table is marked 2 and the checkering/engraving is that of a grade 2. It is grade 2 as built.

[Dean Romig]

In my opinion then, it is a Grade 2 regardless of the barrel steel or what the Order Book shows. Simply a Grade 2 with Laminated Steel barrels.

[Ray Masciarella]

Thx, Dean. I confused you. it actually has D2 barrels, not laminated. It was built as a grade 2 in all aspects. It is just the Order Book that says it was a Grade 1 with laminated barrels. The info in the order book doesn't match the stock book or gun in any respect.

[Dean Romig]

Aha! So it is simply an error in the Order Book then.

[Ray Masciarella]

An error in the Oder Book or did the order change between the time it was given and the time the gun was made? It was ordered on May 28 and shipped Sep 6. I guess there was time to change the order, and if thats what happened, I wonder why the order book was not modified to reflect the change? Of course, that assumes that is what happened.

I just don't understand how this could have happened. If a particular gun was ordered and entered into the order book, isn't that was what was supposed to be put into production? How can it just change without any referrence?

[Robin Lewis]

Just a thought on how that could happen. If the order was taken and the process to make it was just starting, the work tag that travels with the work in progress may have simply been changed without corresponding changes made in "the book"?

Years ago I worked in a forge shop and thinks like that took place on parts moving through the shop.

[Bill Murphy]

It was probably easier to give the customer a Grade 2 than to build a Grade 1. Guns do not always correspond with the order book entry when they are delivered. The stock book is the final configuration of a Parker.

[Chuck Bishop]

I just went through the stock book that Ray's gun is in. I looked for Lam barrels and the one's I saw were all Lam1's. The Parker story however does list 6 guns in top action grade 2 that had Laminated barrels. 210 in lifter actions and 6 in top action guns. Also of note, TPS lists 11 grade 0 hammer guns as having Dam0 barrels and 260 grade 1 hammer guns with Dam1 barrels. I guess it's not true that Damascus was only used on grade 2 and above.

[Dean Romig]

There were different grades of Laminated Steel.

These are examples of the pattern of the later version or the lower grade of Laminated Steel.

.

[Dean Romig]

These are pictures of the earlier higher grade of Laminated Steel generally seen on Grade 3 and higher Parker Lifters.


.

[Dean Romig]

I wish I could say which serial number Parker Bros began using Damascus Steel only on Grade 2 and higher but there was a point at which this decision was made. It can probably best be determined by researching the various Parker Bros catalogs. And in speaking in general terms again there was a point at which the higher grade of Laminated Steel barrels were discontinued on the higher grades and the lower grade of Laminated Steel was used on Grade 1 guns almost exclusively.

Please excuse my not being able to specifically nail down a date or serial number at which these changes took place.

[Bill Murphy]

Sorry, guys. You are working on the assumption that Ray's gun has Laminated barrels. Ray has posted that it is a Grade 2, top to bottom, markings, Damascus barrels, and engraving. Yes, Laminated barrels are installed on Parkers above grade 1 and Damascus barrels are installed on guns below grade 2. However, those facts do not involve the gun in our discussion. As Chuck mentions, our discussion is covering some as yet uncovered research. See next post.

[Chuck Bishop]

So Bill, you've never gone a little bit off topic on your replies:shock:

[Bill Murphy]

No, I appreciate the depth of this discussion, but Ray's gun is a grade 2 in all aspects except the order book entry. The finished gun is just a change from the original order.

[Mark Conrad]

I have seen this before where a higher grade gun was used to fill an order for a lower grade. Believe the stock book. I suspect the gun was in inventory and instead of building a new gun in a lower grade, they pulled the higher grade gun that was collecting dust. Look at the order date compared to the ship date, it is probably just a few days as compared to several months to build a new gun.

[Ray Masciarella]

Mark, thanks for your thoughts. FYI, the order date was in May but the ship date was in Sep. That seems to indicate that the gun was not in stock.

[Chuck Bishop]

I don't think Parker would have a stock of 8ga guns on hand. They were special order guns and commanded a $35.00 surcharge over the price of a 10ga. BTW, on the same order, another 8ga gun was ordered.