Fox A Grade Muzzle treatment

[William Davis]

Anybody know what a uncut Fox A Grade Utica gun should look like at the muzzle ? Wondering if any clues like the matting stoping short like a Parker.

Bill

[Bob Jurewicz]

If the concern is cut barrels the best gauge is length of the choke constriction. Barrel gap is no indication of cut barrels on Fox guns. Many of the 28" guns I have seen have good gaps and have been original as per letter.
Bob Jurewicz

[Mike Shepherd]

You can't tell by the rib.

My XE grade guns have a beveled muzzle end like this:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/AmarilloMike/Fox%20XE%2016/cf933821.jpg

I have three Fox XEs (12, 16, and 20) and the barrels don't touch at the muzzle on any of them. And all of the barrels on them match the factory records.

You can get a factory letter from John Callihan in a few weeks for $80 I think. If you are in a big hurry you can join the Fox Collectors and and they will email you a picture of the factory build card. I usually get those within an hour of submitting my request and paying for it with PayPal. You get one free one each year.

[William Davis]

Thanks for the photos, scallop on the ribs front does not look exactly like the front of your rib.

On the chokes, That's a good tip. I have a micrometer choke gauge have not checked it yet. Have the gun in front of me again tomorrow. How long do you think the choke taper ought to be. It's a 26 inch gun wondering if it was cut from 28, shows some choke with a slip in brass gauge. Micrometer will tell me how long it is, Question is how long it should be. Am thinking ought to show about 4 inches of choke, 2 would be a give away.

Bill

[Mike Shepherd]

I'm sorry William. I buzzed right over the Utica part when I read your post. Mine are all Philadelphia guns.

[Mike Shepherd]

My 20 gauge's are 3" and 3-1/2". The sixteen's are 4" and 3-1/4". I don't have the twelve's in my notes. I just don't know about Utica gun choke lengths.

[William Davis]

Thanks for all the good information. Going to have another look at it see if I can figure out whats what.

Bill

[Mike.Smith]

I own several Foxes, and I can tell you that earlier Philadelphia Foxes had chokes that were 4 to 4 1/2 inches in length, and for those early guns measuring the choke length can be a good indication. I own several Utica guns and have measured many more, with original chokes that are around 2 1/2 inches. If it is a graded gun, getting the order card from the Fox site is the best and fastest way to tell. I had the same question you have and almost passed on a nice original 16ga Sterlingworth Deluxe because it had 2 1/2 inch chokes. I also own a 26 inch C Grade Fox that I was sure was cut by looking at it. When I requested the original order card for the gun (see below), you can see where the 28 inch barrels are scratched out, and 26 penciled in over top of it, indicating that a 28 in gun was pulled from stock and modified to fill an order. Fox chokes also taper evenly from the back to the front with no flat spots in the constriction if you are measuring.

Mike

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8198/8194592773_f8a8e2bfc7_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/smithshady/8194592773/)

[William Davis]

Mike

That's good informaton let you guys know how it turns out.

Bill

[tom tutwiler]

I've got a few Foxes as well. Because of that long choke taper even if barrels have been cut you can still end up with a Mod/IC combination. If the gun is still choked full/mod or tighter it probably left the factory that way no matter what the barrel length (unless its an odd length).

[Dave Noreen]

When the gentleman is asking about a Utica A-Grade, how did the discussion get to Philadelphia XE- and CE-Grades?

The 20-gauge muzzle is a 1938-vintage 26-inch barrel Utica A-Grade. The other three are 26-inch barrel Utica 12-gauges.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/A%20H%20Fox%20Gun%20Co/26-inchMuzzles.jpg

[Bill Murphy]

Bill, what does the card say?

[William Davis]

Thanks again, I passed on it all the little bit of choke it had was in about 1/2 inch. Must have been 28 cut to 26. Good news is I bought a 28 inch 20 G Parker Trojan instead. Was not looking for a 20 but it caught my eye. Be a upgrade from the 28 inch Hunter Arms 20 I have been shooting.

Bill, no card or letter the Fox was in a shop.

Bill