Am I getting a good deal

[Mark Nedrow]

Almost four years ago, I sent my PB double, serial #125424 (1904) to Parker Brothers Makers in Lakewood, Ohio for evaluation and restoration. The owner, quoted that it would be about $1700.00 for the restoration. I shipped the gun, then got a new estimate for just over $3000.00. Because the gun had been in my family for many years and I was told by the owner that it would be worth at least $3000.00 when completed, I told him to proceed. He demanded payment up front before they would start the restoration. Sent to him. Have had numerous correspondence with him, finally having to go to an attorney to try to get my gun back. Even when given a completion date, he failed to meet it. Then, when an extension was granted, he still failed to meet it. Sent an email to my attorney saying that instead of fixing and returning my shotgun, he was sending one from his collection. It's serial # is 185661 (1919). According to him it is a "G" grade where he said my original was a "V" grade and not worth as much. Is it worth it getting the replacement gun? I want "My Original Gun" back, but no luck to this point. HELP!!! Mark

[William Davis]

Don't know about the money part but had a similar situation with a Model 94 shipped across the country for repair years ago. Never finished, no phone calls or letters answered. I ended up hiring a private investigator near the gunsmith. With proof of my ownership he knocked on the gunsmiths door asked for and got the gun with no issues. Had it gone to court would have cost more than it was worth. Person standing in front of him did the trick. Price I paid reflected half a days work

Having said that only a few bad experiences many years of buying and shipping to have work done. Problem rate far less than geting my car worked on.

Bill

[ForrestArmstrong]

I'd get on the plane or in my car and give him a visit regardless of the cost, or get someone else to do it, an attorney/PI or perhaps US Postal Inspectors, who have gotten results for me in the past.

[Billy Gross]

Being this is a family item, I would definitely want the gun and my money back. There is probably more to the story then they are telling you. I would start another post on this site to see if anyone knows these guys or had an experience with them. Reputation is everything in this community, so play that to your advantage. Billy

[will evans]

So the guy has your VH and $3000 of your money? Are these both 12ga guns, or small bores? The first thing is that the value of a restored shotgun is never more than the cost of the restoration, unless the gun has significant provenance or rarity. Do your own market research online regarding the actual value of Parker shotguns. Don't pay attention to the asking prices you see. Look for guns that have actually sold. Is the VH AND $3000 worth the GH they are offering? Possible, although unlikely, imo. It would have to be a really nice GH. Condition is everything, but know that you can buy a fairly nice GH for $3000 in most parts. Even then it sounds like you'd still be out your original gun. That doesn't sound like a deal I would accept.

[Dean Romig]

So, they have obviously lost or destroyed (or have stolen) your Parker. If you haven't received a full disclosure from this "Parker Brothers Makers" outfit as to what happened to your gun I wonder if the police dept. of Lakewood, Ohio... or even ATF would be interested in the theft of a firearm?

[greg conomos]

If they lost a portrait of your grandmother, would you accept a slightly nicer portrait of someone else's grandmother?

[edgarspencer]

If they lost a portrait of your grandmother, would you accept a slightly nicer portrait of someone else's grandmother?

If it was my mother's mother, I would.

[Mills Morrison]

Go for the PI approach, is what I would do.

[Bill Murphy]

You've already retained an attorney. Go for the gonads. Sue them on their own turf. They have never been in this restoration business and sent your gun somewhere else or sold it. They had an FFL. By law, they would have had to log it in when they opened the box and log it out when they disposed of it. Your lawyer and the ATF can demand that they provide the information about the next owner.

[Robin Lewis]

Years ago I was in Herb Stratemeyre's shop in Vermont and saw two nice shoyguns and bought them. But, I only had enough cash on hand to pay for one. Herb said "take them both and send me a check". I was a little surprised because this, the check would have been for a few thousand dollars and I asked Herb why he would trust me like that. His reply was one I will remember for years to come, he said "I have never be stiffed by a shotgun enthusiast and if I were, I would just call the ATF and report it stolen and by whom".

I think in a case like yours, for once, the ATF may very well be a friend. You might call them and tell this "Parker Brothers Makers" outfit you will report it stolen to the ATF and where it was last known to be.

[Phillip Carr]

If they sold you gun, in my opinion that is selling a known stolen gun. If I took my truck into Toyota and they sold it I would damn sure call the police and report it stolen, or at a minimum as some have suggested call ATF. Best of luck.

[Christopher Lien]

Almost four years ago, I sent my PB double, serial #125424 (1904) to Parker Brothers Makers in Lakewood, I want "My Original Gun" back, HELP!!! Mark
---------------------------------------

4 years, your gun, and your $3K... Call and ask him, what has happened to your gun, where is it now, and why he doesn't want to send it back?... If you do not get a straight answer to all your questions, call the local Sheriff's office for Lakewood "Cuyahoga County" and tell them about your missing gun, your missing money, and who has it... After 4 years, I think the Sheriff would like to knock on his door (with the serial number to your gun in hand) and ask him those exact same questions face to face... Good Luck.

http://www.lakewoodcourtoh.com/generalinfo.html

.Cuyahoga County Sheriff's Office
1215 West Third Street
Cleveland, Ohio 44113
(216) 443-6000

.City of Lakewood Prosecutor's Office
12650 Detroit Avenue
Lakewood, Ohio 44107
(216) 529-6030

.City of Lakewood Police Department
12650 Detroit Avenue
Lakewood, Ohio 44107
(216) 521-6773 (non-emergency)

.

[Bill Murphy]

Do we really think that Parker Brothers Makers actually has a door to knock on? I think ATF is the only agency that would have the authority to insist that there actually is a door. Thanks for the information, Chris.

[Dean Romig]

Edited for wrong website posted.

[Craig Parker]

Bill's right about door and I don't think there's a door to knock on but I would still have the local Dept check it out and forward it to ATF. That just one more loop closed for the track down of the gun.
Craig

[Christopher Lien]

I found the guys name, business address, and other pertinent info in about two minutes... On a stolen gun charge, I'm sure the Sheriff could quickly locate the front door to his home residence (For a Knock & Talk) if the business address no longer existed...

Best, CSL
______________________

[Christopher Lien]

Edited for Dean...

CSL
________________

.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

The website listed above is for a business in Ct, as is its phone #, not for Lakewood, Oh.
This is strange

[Bill Murphy]

ATF will sort it out, but will they share the information?

[Chris_Caile]

Web site states they were incorporated in Meriden CT, and Corp records are a PO Box there.

http://www.bbb.org/cleveland/Business-Reviews/guns-and-gunsmiths/parker-bros-makers-in-lakewood-oh-92005824

http://firearm-dealers.findthebest.com/l/114915/Parker-Bros-Makers-Inc

Parker Bros Makers Inc 13000 Athens Avenue, Unit E-200. Lakewood, OH 44107.
Business Name Parker Bros
Expiration Date June 01, 2015
License Region Central
License Number 4-34-035-07-5F-03766

Address is for Dussault Moving Inc, perhaps a storage unit that Parker Bros Markers rents?

[Ed Blake]

You've retained an attorney and notified the authorities; that's about all you can doFor now. How did you find that outfit? I wonder if they are the same ones who were advertising the PB over/under a few years back? Sorry about your gun.

[Dean Romig]

My apologies to all involved.

[Rich Anderson]

For once the GVT has the ability to do something for one of it's citizens. Call the ATF & the local Sherrif.

[edgarspencer]

Maybe the guy just spoiled your gun in his attempt to 'restore' it. He may well know he F'd up, and that's why he's offering you a G from his collection, but not man enough to admit he messed up. If the guy will talk to you, give him the ultimatum that he either fess up or you'll bring in the Feds. You might get your gun plus the G out of it. If he's a legit business, he won't want to risk loosing his FFL over one gun.
I've always been a sucker for giving people a chance.

[Chris_Caile]

I wonder if they are the same ones who were advertising the PB over/under a few years back? Sorry about your gun.

They seem to be and still are advertising Parker O/U's. I'd like to know how many they have made and sold...

[Brian Dudley]

To answer your question, No, you are not getting a good deal.
It better be a VERY nice GH to be worth $3k and the $1k or so your VH might have been worth.

I hate to hear about things like this happening. It is really uncalled for and gives everyone else a bad name in sort of a way since if it happens once, someone is extremely hesitant to want to work with someone else.

Being a one man operation, I can understand that things take time, but 4 years? And then what is transpiring now is something else!

I would insist on your gun back, in whatever state it may be in AND your money in full. If they cannot, an explanation as to why would be nice. Providing that the gun is not butchered up in some way, there are many gunsmiths that could pick up the pieces I am sure.
If the gun is "gone" or butchered, sure... take the GH he is offering. But also get your money back since you are out money and a gun.
And if the gun is no where to be found... yes, report it stolen to the ATF right away. They will no doubt have some answering to do to the ATF and also that record of it being stolen will follow the Serial number for a long time.

Recently a couple of very high grade LC Smith guns were pulled from an auction house because they were discovered to have been stolen back in the 80's or something.
If you get a report filed on it, who knows, you may get your gun back some day.

[Ed Blake]

They seem to be and still are advertising Parker O/U's. I'd like to know how many they have made and sold...

Those guys were at the Vintagers at Pintail Point a few years back. They had an example on hand. It appeared to be nicely done. Those guns were discussed here right after that. Are those guys members of the PGCA and in our directory?

[Brian Dudley]

This is a post by Mark that was likely accidentally started as a new thread...

"Wow, I'm amazed at the response from many of you out there. Parker Brothers Makers is in Ohio, not Connecticut. Many of you have suggested calling the owner. He will not talk to me. I called the local police, who indicated they have had a number of complaints about this company. When I asked the detective assigned to complaints for the company to pay them a visit, he said he wouldn't as he gets nowhere with them. He also said the Prosecuting Attorney's office won't do anything. So, I have sent a request to the AFT to look into this for me. Just so you know, they had all the parts ready for bluing, etc back in July of 2012. Don't think it would take a year and a half to blue up those pieces and make a stock. Said just last week that they got the barrels too thin trying to remove bore pits and that is why he is offering the other gun. Don't want another gun, just want mine. Also, they do advertise on the internet and make very fancy looking PB shotguns, but I'll never buy anything from them. Thanks to all of you for your comments. Mark"

I would just insist on getting the gun back in whatever state it is in and your money back in full. Period. If barrels are shot, then so be it. A different set can be found and fitted. If they acknowlege the gun is still there, I would not think this to be a problem. But... you never know.

I will make the statement I have made before in regards to this company... who the heck wants an overpriced O/U with the name Parker on it?

[Jerry Harlow]

Mark,

If they got the barrels too thin, then they should rebarrel them, of course sending everything back to you with the original payment along with the payment to have it done by Kirk Merrington or someone capable of doing it, if it is a meaningful family piece. Do not accept that they cannot be repaired if you want the original gun. Just my 2 cents.

[Brian Dudley]

If they rebarrel them... that will be another 4 years I am sure.

[Jerry Harlow]

Brian,

I wrote to get everything back gun-wise, the $3K payment, and the full cost of having someone like Merrington repair the barrels. Not to leave anything in their possession.

[George Lander]

When I saw their exhibit at Pintail Point a few years back I did not get the impression that they actually made the guns themselves, but rather had them outsourced fro somewhere in Europe. I could be wrong though.

Best Regards, George

[Brian Dudley]

And it makes me wonder when they said "they have all the parts ready for bluing". I bet they were going to blue the while darn gun, and turn it into a gunbroker special. Not just a barrels and few other small parts that are Supposed to be blued.

[Dennis V. Nix]

Mark,
Having been in an almost identical situation years ago (1970's) with Pachmayr Firearms at their old Los Angeles location I can sympathize. I had taken a very nice pre-64 Model 70 in 30-06 to be customized in the classic fashion. I was told it would be a few years as they were way behind in their orders. I selected a walnut blank with the help of Frank Pachmayr himself along with his wood manager. Fortunately I took the blank home with me that day. Not wanting to be a pest I didn't check about my rifle until two years later by phone. No, I was told they had not even started working on it yet. Yes, it was going to be some time until they got to it. For the next four years I checked once a year and was told the same thing. After six years of showing more patience than I thought I had within me I drove to their store and asked them to simply give me my rifle back no matter what condition it was in. After half an hour of waiting I was told by Jack Lott, who did some work for them and on his own firearms, that my rifle had been stolen sometime during the past six years and they would give me another rifle. Thank God it was not a family heirloom but simply a common then and now, Model 70 in 30-06. I chose a Model 70 Featherweight in great condition and walked out. I have never bought anything else from them then or since. Yes I realize they are not there anymore.

In your case I would simply fly or drive to the store and demand your gun and money back. I doubt you will get your money back without court proceedings handled through your attorney. Hopefully you will get your original Parker back though. I only suggest going yourself because if you pay an attorney or a PI to do it you will probably pay more than if you had gone yourself.

Dennis

[Dennis V. Nix]

For those who have recommended telling the gunsmith (if he can be called that) I would not go the route of saying you will say the gun was stolen. There are laws for filing an illegal report. It wastes the time of police and ATF and is not necessary. From what I have read this is simply a CIVIL dispute. The gunsmith did not steal the gun and it sounds like nobody really knows what happened to it. Possibly he did screw up the job and wants to make it good by offering a G grade to make up for it. Possibly the gun was stolen as mine was years ago. In reality until the person who owns the gun goes to talk to the gunsmith all we can do as bystanders is speculate about this and that with none of us having a clue as to what is going on. If it is determined that the gunsmith has violated a law then the Sheriff, Police department or ATF, depending on the violation, should be contacted.

Dennis

[greg conomos]

It pretty much fits the description of 'stolen' in my book.

[Dennis V. Nix]

Fishtail,

I would like to think that too but from what the original poster said in another post the guy still has the gun but bored the barrels too thin. I see maybe sloppy gunsmithing work but not stolen in anybody's book. It isn't so much what we see but what the appropriate law says.

Dennis