Lightening Grooves

[Bruce Day]

xxxxx

[Rick Losey]

has any one figured out how much weight that actually saves?

maybe weighing two same sized frames sans wood - one grooved one not

at least it looks really cool

[Rich Anderson]

I bet it shaves off an ounce maybe a little more.

[Rick Losey]

I bet it shaves off an ounce maybe a little more.

that is what i was thinking - you can save that by carefully selecting wood.

So was it a complete approach to get the weight down. lightening cuts on the frame and chose light wood - holes are often drilled in the buttstock - but my impression is they are as much for balance as weight

[Rich Anderson]

I have a 16ga lifter and a Top lever hammerguns, the lifter has the cuts the other doesn't both have 28 inch bbla and I can't tell much difference in weight. On the other hand I have a GHE 16 O frame with cuts and BTF with 28 inch damascuss bbls thats as heavy as a #1 frame gun.

i think it's more marketing than anything else.

[edgarspencer]

has any one figured out how much weight that actually saves?

Calculate the volume and multiply by .284. Low alloy steel weighs .284 lbs/cu.in.

[Rick Losey]

Calculate the volume and multiply by .284. Low alloy steel weighs .284 lbs/cu.in.

so - good excuse to buy one with lightening cuts so that I can measure it :rotf:

[Brian Dudley]

One gun I am building (a VH to CH upgrade) on a 2 frame, I milled out the underside of the forend. And that saved 1/2oz. I do plan on milling out he water table on my 20g hammer gun I am building. So I will post the results of what the weights are before and after once I do it. I would wager an ounce as well.

[edgarspencer]

At one time, I calculated the weight savings on an 0 frame lifter to be about 1.5 ounces. The lifter has one continuous cut, unlike the top lever that has 2 cuts per side, interrupted by the check-hook rod.

[Dean Romig]

The lightening cuts on the 0-Frame lifter consist of one cut per side with a length of 1.92" each and a width of .38" wide each and a depth of .112" for the cut on the left water table and .102" for the cut on the right water table.

As a comparison, the lightening cuts on an 0-Frame T/A consisting of two cuts per flat are 1.37" in length each for the cuts to the rear of the check hook rod and .89" for the forward cuts. The width of these cuts are .37" wide and .102" deep.

Okay fellas, get out your slide-rules and figure the ounces saved on the lifter and the ounces saved on the T/A....... Ready - Get set - GO!!

[Bill Murphy]

Rich, most of us haven't seen a hammerless 20 with lightening cuts. Can you post a picture?

[Rich Anderson]

Okay fellas, get out your slide-rules and figure the ounces saved on the lifter and the ounces saved on the T/A....... Ready - Get set - GO!!

:confused: Thats just to much math, whats a slide rule?:whistle:

Bill its a 16

[Dave Suponski]

You guy's have way too much time on your hands.

[Dean Romig]

It's either this or go back to work... :knowbetter:

[Larry Frey]

The lightening cuts on the 0-Frame lifter consist of one cut per side with a length of 1.92" each and a width of .38" wide each and a depth of .112" for the cut on the left water table and .102" for the cut on the right water table.

As a comparison, the lightening cuts on an 0-Frame T/A consisting of two cuts per flat are 1.37" in length each for the cuts to the rear of the check hook rod and .89" for the forward cuts. The width of these cuts are .37" wide and .102" deep.

Okay fellas, get out your slide-rules and figure the ounces saved on the lifter and the ounces saved on the T/A....... Ready - Get set - GO!!

I can't help you unless you give me the radius at the bottom of the slots.:)

[Robin Lewis]

Fill them with hot wax. After it cools, form it into a cube and measure it. No slide rule involved.

[Dean Romig]

I can't help you unless you give me the radius at the bottom of the slots.:)


Take the width of the slots and divide by 2 and you'll get the radius.

Actually, the depth is the radius in this case.

Remember though, the slots are perfectly rounded at each end so you'll need to multiply by pi in order to arrive at cu. in.

This is gettin' to be fun!

[Larry Frey]

The lightening cuts on the 0-Frame lifter consist of one cut per side with a length of 1.92" each and a width of .38" wide each and a depth of .112" for the cut on the left water table and .102" for the cut on the right water table.

Take the width of the slots and divide by 2 and you'll get the radius.

Actually, the depth is the radius in this case.

Remember though, the slots are perfectly rounded at each end so you'll need to multiply by pi in order to arrive at cu. in.

This is gettin' to be fun!

Not so grasshopper!

In your previous example you say half the width would equal the radius which would be correct if the depth also equaled at least half the width. But you are correct in that the radius at the ends must be taken into consideration.:bigbye:

[Bill Murphy]

Rich, we haven't seen a hammerless 16 with lightening cuts. Can we see a picture?

[scott kittredge]

You guy's have way too much time on your hands.

have Pete lester do it, that will give him a break from looking for powder

[David Hamilton]

Youse guys! The hot wax is the best so far. I was going to suggest that one fill the cuts with a fluid, measure the volume and convert to the weight of steel by volume. David

[Richard Flanders]

Easiest way to measure this would be to take a syringe with a thin liquid in it, level the receiver as best you can then fill a groove to as level as you can visually then look and see how many CC's it took... You'll get the volume very close that way

[David Dwyer]

OK, I had Bred B. upgrade an O grade 1 frame underlever 12ga to a 7 lb A grade . We did continuous lightning cuts and it reduced the weight by .8 oz. There are a lot of variables ,width, depth. end taper etc.
David

That is the gun at the left

[Dean Romig]

David, kindly show us a picture of Brad's lightening cuts on your gun.

Secondly, please show us pictures of the engraving as well.

[Rich Anderson]

Thats a lot of work to save only .8oz, I would have thought it would have been closer to 1 oz maybe a little more. either way a lot of work. If your going to reduce the weight of a gun I think the best place to do it is in the stock.

[David Dwyer]

Dean
I will when I get it back. I will be shooting it in Sandford and Drakes. I have has a second set of locks fitted to her and they are at the engravers now. My next step is to have a custom walnut case built for her:two 30" barrels with fore ends,two locks .
David

[David Dwyer]

Cob
You are correct ,but you are limited in doing that if you still want it to balance on the pin. I thought it would be more when we decided to do it . I ended up with 7ib 2 oz gun ,good barrel wall thickness and a hollowed out stock.

[Brian Dudley]

Well,
I was hoping to give the results of some real world trials, but I cannot due to me not having the proper scale.
I milled out the lightening cuts in my 20g top lever I am building. My reloading scale will not register high enough of a weight to get a good reading. And my other scales will not pick it up. The frame is around 1 pound. The best I could do is severely rough it out on my dial kitchen scale. I can say that the cuts made no more difference than an ounce at the absolute highest possibility.

I was really hoping to have more accurate information.

[Bruce Day]

Or less than the weight of a single shotgun shell.

Maybe somebody could tell me what the hoopla is all about? I see it as interesting but not really amounting to much.

[Rich Anderson]

Maybe somebody could tell me what the hoopla is all about? I see it as interesting but not really amounting to much.

Here the wind is blowing 40MPH and it's colder than a well digger's ass:eek:
So it gives us something to talk about and stay warm:rotf:

[Dean Romig]

Possibly just another 'marketing ploy' to gain the confidence of the gun buying public.

[todd allen]

Lightening cuts add to the cool factor. The weight savings are a secondary concern. BTW, I think that measuring, and calculating the weight is the way to go.

[Bill Zachow]

I also think it was a marketing ploy. Not only did they make the cuts, they polished those cuts so they are like glass. How they did that without rounding the top edges of the cuts is beyond me. I have a top action 16 O frame with the cuts and you can almost cut your finger if you slide it along the edde. Meticulous work.

[Brian Dudley]

Many of the ones I have seen are not completely smooth. There is still some ridges in the bottoms of the grooves.
But, it really does look like they plunged while making the cut since the depth decreases evenly by the ends.

[edgarspencer]

They may have made the rough cut with a vertical mill, but look closely and you'll see grinding lines running parallel to the cut, which indicates it was finished off with a grinding operation.