What to do...

[Jay Oliver]

Hello Everyone,

I just received my second Parker of the year. It is a 12 gauge top lever hammer gun serial #51965 I won on gun broker for $750. The gun is on a #1 frame and a 0 grade. I bought my first Parker a 1901 GH a few weeks ago that had some damage during shipping that was a bit upsetting, however the 2 minor repairs are being handled and I feel the gun was a great buy.

This 12 gauge hammer gun came with a dent in the barrel and a slightly loose action although it was described as "very tight". In one of the pictures below you can notice that there is some slight denting by the chambers. When I run my fingers over that part there is a slight lip.

One of the reason I bid on the hammer gun was I thought it would be something I could work and a fun project since my GH was as in such good original condition. An interesting thing about this was someone carved their own pattern of checking(not very well but I was okay with that) I liked the idea of someone making their gun unique. I wanted this to be a shooter and I was planning to shoot black powder shot shells in it. The barrels are 30" and appear to be uncut(the barrels touch in the middle) and are choked modified and modified, which I though was unique(it might not be though). I have attached some pictures below.

I have not contacted the seller yet as I wanted to get the opinion of some PGCA members to see what they would do. The bores are cleaner than I expected, but moderately pitted(I haven’t tried to clean them yet). Hammers match and work. There is some damage to the bottom of the butt plate and stock, but I knew that when I bid on it. Auction was listed as no returns.

I believe the gun will clean up well, my only real concern is the barrels. I would appreciate any suggestions/advice. If the new is bad that’s okay too, here are the pictures:

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii565/whalerjay/DSCN0059.jpg

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii565/whalerjay/DSCN0060.jpg

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii565/whalerjay/DSCN0065.jpg

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii565/whalerjay/DSCN0064.jpg

http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii565/whalerjay/DSCN0067.jpg

Thank you,

Jay

[Jay Oliver]

I forgot to mention the the gun has "Twist" barrels.

I also may have picked the wrong forum, General instead of Hammer Guns, but I thought this could apply to any sight unseen or auction type purchase.

Thanks,

Jay

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Jay, I would be suspect when it comes to those barrels, They need to be looked at by a good smith, and of course you know the checkering has been redone very wrong, gary

[David Holes]

No returns on gun broker means that you own it. If you wanted one to work on you have a good one. Hammer guns are fun to work on. But the barrels are going to need dent removed and inspected by someone with knowledge on twist barrels. Nice project.

[Ed Blake]

I suspect that the head of the stock may be split as indicated by the loose fit of the tang. I'm not sure what you mean by a slight lip near the chambers, but if you suspect a chamber bulge do not shoot the gun. As others have commented, take it to a qualified gunsmith and have him inspect the barrels.

[Brian Dudley]

Yes, it does look like there is some cracking inside the head, which is causing the poor fit around the upper tang. This is not all that uncommon with theSe guns that have seen heavy use.
The dent in the barrel is repairable by a gunsmith who has the right tools for the job. It is a good sized one by the look of it and should not be shot before repairing.

I can I believe that checkering butchery. There is no repair to that since the carving looks very deep. Is it was just normal checkering mistakes, they can sometimes be corrected, but not that. This is another example of the many guns I see on the internet while perusing listings. I just shake my head and wonder what they were thinking.

It looks like that work may have been end a long while ago based on the dark color of it compared to the rest of the stock.

I do not want to comment too much on value of the gun vs. price paid. All I can say is that these can be found in better shape for the same money.

Positives that I see are relatively good metal condition. Does not appear to be any heavy rust or pitting.

[Jay Oliver]

Thanks for the replies, you answered my question, it seems I overpaid for this "Project". The reason I posted here before contacting the seller was to find out if I got a good deal in spite of all of the issues. I really wanted a hammer gun I could use. I am going to contact the seller and see what happens. This gun was misrepresented.

If the gun is turns out to be mine(no returns) I will contact Brian. I sent him my GH last week for a chip in the stock and possible re-cut checkering.

Thanks for the replies! Jay

[Rich Anderson]

I wish you the best of luck with the seller. I seldom frequent auction sites but when I see No Returns I'm always suspect. If your gun is off face that is a repair that can cost several hundred dollars to remedy.

[Brian Dudley]

By all means, if you truly feel the gun was misrepresented, then persue a return. IE: he said the gun was tight and it is not.
Sounds like you have a case there.

The only reason a seller can justify a no return policy is in the event of Parts sales where fit may not be guaranteed. Or for clearly represented Parts Guns.

[Russ Jackson]

Jay ,I did not see the ad. for the gun mentioned so won't comment on it but if the seller did misrepresent the gun ,contact him first ,explain the situation where you feel you were mislead and if you get no where ,then contact the powers that be at Gun Broker and explain in very minute' detail of the misrepresentation , be very precise in your details as they will give you only one chance to explain your side of the story ! At that point ,they will contact the seller and you will be notified of the results ,this process is not fast ! I have been buying and selling on GB for a quite a while and they will intercede if they feel either party has been wronged ! Good Luck and if you do end up keeping this gun ,don't feel too bad about it ,after a visit to a good qualified Smith ,I think you will be able to make it a shooter and it is a great learning experience ,I am like Rich ,if it is advertised as NO RETURN ,I suspect something isn't right and let them keep it ! Remember ,no one who fools with old guns has not been there and done that at some point ! Best ; Russ

[Mills Morrison]

I have had to return one gun on Gunbroker that was advertised as "no return/as-is". I politely explained the issue and it was one that the seller could have overlooked. The seller took the gun back and all was well. You might get lucky in this situation too and hopefully you will

[wayne goerres]

I knew a man in Oregon who use to build custom guns off mouser actions and he use to checker everyone that way. Russ said it all. If they mark it no return you might want to back away. If it says in the description that We don't know anything about guns Buyer be ware.

[charlie cleveland]

with some work and expence you can turn this old gun into a shooter..for some reason i have a soft spot for these old abused and over worked guns.i m sure this old gun of yours has seen her fair share of the hunting fields.. yes them dents need taking out and them barrels need looking at by someone that knows barrels good to see if they are safe to shoot...but i bet your old gun after a look over and a little work will make you a proud shooter.. charlie

[Mills Morrison]

I am with Charlie. It would make a good rainy day hunting gun

[Harryreed]

Like others, if it is a good shooter, keep it:duck:

[Jay Oliver]

I have not heard from the seller yet and just sent another polite email asking to return the gun. I like the last few posts suggesting I "rescue" the gun and have something I can use that I don't feel I have to always baby.

I'll post other update either when I hear some good news from the seller or when I can tell you more about the hammer gun I wound up with.

Thank for the replies and suggestions,

Jay

[Milton Starr]

Ive bought 2 guns off gb from 2 different sellers both offered a 3 day inspection and return period and they both had A+ ratings .

[Jay Oliver]

This GB seller has over 1000 transactions A+ rating with 10 negative feedbacks that were too old for me to read the details. So he is above 99% and my hope is that will help my case. He did mention he was traveling last week, and if his email inbox is like mine it will take him a few days to catch up.

Based on the description it was hard not to bid(especially for someone who knew just enough about Parkers to be dangerous), here is part of the description:

Receiver, barrels and forearm all matching serial numbers. Hammers both correct and working. Lockup and action is very tight. Barrels look good with some minor pits.

I hope he gets back to me soon...a piece of scotch tape on the hook tightened it up and I am thinking what it would look like with an English(straight) stock. Maybe that is what I need to do, get excited about fixing it up so he emails me back and says to send it back to him...

[Jay Oliver]

Finally heard back from the seller who told me that the gun was accurately described and that if I left negative feedback he would do the same for me.

So I will get this gun back to shootable condition and enjoy it. I didn't mind the "unique" checkering and a piece of scotch tape tighten it up(though I will have that fixed properly). I hope the barrels can be fixed and I will add an period correct recoil pad to get the LOP to 14 1/4 inches and enjoy it(which I know I will).

So lessons learned:

1. I think step one in an auction setting is to see what else the seller has listed. I didn't have a good reference price on this Parker, but I noticed that several of his other items had a high opening bid for guns that I did have a good reference price on. Had I took the time to do that I would have know that I probably should not bid on this Parker.

2. Send a quick confirmation note saying something like: " I would like to bid on your listing, but before I do I want to make sure that #'s match, bores are good, action is tight...Can you tell me anything about the gun that didn't show up in the pictures or description?"

3. I would say don't bid or buy on anything that doesn't have an inspection period. However the GH I bought about a month ago was damaged during shipping which negated the 3 day inspection period(at least with the seller I bought it from, this was a dealer not an auction). I guess every purchase is situational, but while an inspection period might not always cover you I don't see myself buying anything again that says "No Refunds or Exchanges"

Having said all this I have been shouldering my 1887 12 gauge hammer gun for the past week and look forward to getting it fixed and out in the field.

Thanks for all the suggestions and support on this!

Jay

[Mills Morrison]

Did the seller put that threat in an email? If so, I would send it to Gunbroker.

[wayne goerres]

I am with Mills. If you can prove it with a copy of the Email I also would send it to gun broker. I personally don't like being threatened. You bid on it and you pay'ed him for it so just what is he going to give you a negative feed back about.

[Brian Dudley]

I still insist that the gun was NOT as represented and insist for a return.

[Jay Oliver]

Thanks for the comments, I think I am going to let this one go. This guy isn't worth it. Had I done a little homework I should have known something was up. I don't want everyone to think I am backing down, I just can see this ending up in the same place a month from now.

I wanted a hammer gun, and I got one that hopefully I can use and not worry about putting a scratch or two on it. I'll save up for a Grade I or II that I can be proud of and use this one and feel good about getting a neglected Parker back in service.

I can say that if(more likely when) I get my 3rd Parker it will not be bought online!

Brian look for a PM from me latter tonight or in the morning. This gun is heading your way...and hopefully it is salvageable.

Thanks,

Jay

[Mills Morrison]

Good luck getting your gun fixed up. Keep us posted on the progress.

[Jay Oliver]

Thanks, I will definately post some updates in the hammer gun section. After I thought about about I guess I am backing down from this GB seller. I am putting a good portion of the blame(and responsibility) on myself eventhough he was wrong. I'll get this gun fixed up and never think about him again.

[todd allen]

Move forward with a happy heart, knowing you are doing a good deed for a formerly homeless Parker. Make it a shooter, kill some birds, and make your dog happy.
If 3 line per inch checkering comes into style, you'll be ahead of the curve.

[Jay Oliver]

Thanks Todd, that is exactly where I am at on this gun now. And while I have never been a trend setter I guess that checkering style could catch on :)