belgian proof marks

[Jeff Davis]

Anyone here up to speed on various Belgian proof marks? I've looked at all the various resources on the web and I remain confused. I was looking at a friends gun, Francotte, and we were trying to deduce when it was made using the charts here;

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

What's confusing is there a couple indications according to the chart that it was made prior to 1924, diamond with Gauge number inside (mark 24 in the attached link), and the choke configuration is listed as in mark 28, which also indicates 1910-1924. But- there is an S with a * above it which indicates it was proofed after 1952 according to the controller of proof codes. I don't see a letter anywhere else that indicates an earlier proof. I didn't see anything that correlates to a date code as listed in that chart. Confusing to me. Any Belgian experts here? Unfortunately I do not have pictures.

Francottes seem like pretty nice guns. At some point I need to find a nice lightweight gun for my wife. Seems like you can get some pretty nice sub-gauge francottes for short money compared to a Parker or a smith.

[Drew Hause]

Here is another resource. The controller's marks cannot be used to date the gun, but it should have a letter annale
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=295608

If you'd post a close up of all marks on the barrel flats, and just forward of the flats, I'll try to help.

[Jeff Davis]

Thanks. Unfortunately I don't have pictures. I didn't see a letter annales anywhere, that chart starts in 1921, so could it be before that? So the controllers Mark is not definitive- how about the other two marks I mentioned? Do they definitively date it prior to 1924?

[Drew Hause]

Date of Manufacture
NON POUR BALLE - choked unrifled bores used 1878 - 1897
1898 - 1910 – Bore in mm (22 cm from breech) and muzzle (choke constriction) appear next to each other after ‘choke’
1910 – 1924 – Bore in mm is over muzzle dimension

Prior to 1924 the gauge would be indicated within a diamond.
Post-1924 - A 12-70 in an Omega lying is the gauge and chamber length in mm., and would indicate the gun is chambered for 12ga 70mm or 2 3/4” length shells.

[Dean Romig]

Francottes seem like pretty nice guns. At some point I need to find a nice lightweight gun for my wife. Seems like you can get some pretty nice sub-gauge francottes for short money compared to a Parker or a smith.



Francottes are generally very underrated guns. They are exceptionally nice guns and are usually very under-priced for what they are.

[Drew Hause]

I meant to mention that Abercrombie & Fitch and Von Lengerke & Detmold sales records exist, Bob Beach does a wonderful job with research letters http://www.griffinhowe.com/research-main.cfm