newbie found a parker Trojan in CT

[Aaron Bernstein]

A little follow up to my new-member post with some pics.
First: long story short, my friends mother found grandpa's old guns in the basement and told dad "they got to go" it just so happens that mom works in town hall and saw my pistol permit application come across her desk. so the next time i'm over up he comes from the basement with 3 pre-ww2 shotguns and a 1938 Winchester .22. I nearly soiled myself when I saw"Parker Bros Makers Meriden CT" on the barrel!

http://i.imgur.com/U8eY4IM.jpg1

the next day forms are signed and the state was called and they are mine. spiders and all :eek:
I cleaned them up some, bore is nice and shiny now, except for some pitting at the chokes and dirty chambers

here's a photo of the lot after some ballistol and steel wool
http://i.imgur.com/Y01isbt.jpg?1
Yes thats my foot, no that is not my purse

I don't have anymore "before" shots of the Trojan but to give you an example of the extent of the rust on all of these guns here's the barrel of that Winchester Model 61
http://i.imgur.com/HfmjpJ3.jpg?2
:crying:

anywhoo, after some basic gun care (30 years too late)
http://i.imgur.com/IXigdaz.jpg?2

i offered him $500 and he said "just take it":bigbye:

I have no intention of restoring this gun and i couldn't afford that anyway, i definitely would if this was a higher-grade collectors piece, but it seems like this was a "working gun", well used for target, clays, upland, turkey, and behind-the-ktichen-door critter gitter.
I want to return it to good working condition, but have a few questions:

For a 10%-20% Trojan 12ga #2 with a tight lockup and beat up wood, what should i do before i load her up? aside from basic care, i kind of want to leave it looking as-is for now but want to know about checking out the chambers and the chokes.
How do these things take modern ammo? high-brass? I know no steel shot for waterfowl, how about foster slugs?

I'll have more info for everyone this weekend, i'm pretty sure the Dean of the college, and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts frown on students doing gunsmithing in the dorms.

Thanks in advance for Your interest and advice, this is a wonderful welcoming community and I look forward to becoming a member soon. I'm so excited to have stumbled into a world of appreciation for artistry and quality craftsmanship than originated in my own back yard (i've worked in Meriden for 7 years before going back to school).

Thank You

[Brian Dudley]

Looks like you got a great buy on your first Parker there! Looks like a very Honest and solid gun.
Might want to hit those barrels with some oil and a frontier pad or 0000 steel wool to remove the light surface rust.

[Aaron Bernstein]

oh almost forgot... Is it safe to dry fire this Trojan, as far as I can tell it has single piece hammer/firing pins and the disassembly instructions say to dry fire before takedown.

obviously if i snap it all the time eventually something will break, i do plan on getting some snap caps eventually.

[Rick Losey]

do you have a couple fired shells - cut them down so they are obviously not live when you look for them. knock the primer out with a thin nail or rod and fill the hole with rubber sealant - that will last for a few tries

[Harryreed]

A Browning A5, .22 pump and another semi-auto shotgun along with your Parker. Enjoy:cheers: You are living right. As for firing the Parker, carefully study the barrels for any dents, bulges (however slight) or other signs of stress. If they appear sound they probably are. You have stated that it locks up tight. I would be comfortable with game loads and #7 or #8 shot. Remember, the wood on this gun is nearly 100 years old. Heavier loads are more likely to harm the wood then anything else.

Oh, looks like one of your other shotguns has a Cutts Compensator on the end of the barrel. The tube on the end is threaded and can be changed to other chokes. The tubes are hard to find, but are still around.

[John Dallas]

My home made snap caps use a pencil eraser in the primer pocket

[Mills Morrison]

That sure is a nice haul there. I got a Fox Sterlingworth 16 that had worse rust spots than yours and they came right off with oil and steel wool. There is still some light spotting where the rust was, but that just makes me worry less about it when shooting it.

[Aaron Bernstein]

A Browning A5, .....
Oh, looks like one of your other shotguns has a Cutts Compensator on the end of the barrel. The tube on the end is threaded and can be changed to other chokes. The tubes are hard to find, but are still around.

It's a Savage 720, a licenced copy of the Auto 5 made in the USA with the same parts as a Remington mod 11 i want to try and find a magnum barrel for it

and the comp choke is a "Savage Super choke" its like a cross between the lyman cutts and a poly choke, it's missing the outer adjustment tube so I might try and remove it. all of the replacements I can find come with a barrel, receiver and stock attached :banghead:

[Harryreed]

They can be removed. I had one on a Browning Sweet 16 and had it removed. If it is a poly, the barrels will have narrow slits in the end of the barrel so when it is tightened the choke is tighter and when it is loosened the choke is opened. Removing a poly is more of a problem then removing a cutts. Be aware, after removal the barrel must still be over 16 inches.

[Rick Losey]

Be aware, after removal the barrel must still be over 16 inches.

i thought it was 18 inches

[Brian Dudley]

You can dry fire without any concern of breaking things. But, you are right, best to not make a habit of it.

[Aaron Bernstein]

i thought it was 18 inches

The barrel length right now is 28" so I have about 10" to play with :cool:

[Marc Retallack]

Aaron,

If the Savages are like the A5s, you can not use a Magnum barrel on a 2 3/4" gun. Even if it did fit, 3" shells would not function through the gun.

[Brian Dudley]

i thought it was 18 inches

Yes, legal barrel minimum length is 18" and overall length must also be 26.5" if I remember correctly. For all you mad max fans out there.

[Aaron Bernstein]

Aaron,

If the Savages are like the A5s, you can not use a Magnum barrel on a 2 3/4" gun. Even if it did fit, 3" shells would not function through the gun.

Good to know, I figured 3"ers wouldn't feed from the magazine but was kind of hoping to single load them.

Yes, legal barrel minimum length is 18" and overall length must also be 26.5" if I remember correctly. For all you mad max fans out there.

In not against getting a SBS tax stamp and making myself a pocket 12 gauge!

[Steve McCarty]

Rust - I use Liquid Wrench and 0000 steel wool, and I soak the barrel and touch it lightly with the steel wool. Most of the rust will come off. The right smith can do the barrels and clean up the gun for $600. Yeah it's steep, but just a good clean up is okay too. No need to make an old gun look new. Its charm is its history.

[Harryreed]

Not a Mad Max fan, I just got it wrong. Sorry about that. But do consider barrel length if making a modification.

[Dean Romig]

Words of wisdom... In my unguided youth I made myself a "pocket 12 gauge".. (utterly illegal in every sense) and nearly lost the permanent use of my hands and arms from the ungodly recoil. I disposed of that horrible WMD where it would do no harm, sending it literally to the "four corners of the earth" piece by piece.

[Aaron Bernstein]

Words of wisdom... In my unguided youth I made myself a "pocket 12 gauge".. (utterly illegal in every sense) and nearly lost the permanent use of my hands and arms from the ungodly recoil. I disposed of that horrible WMD where it would do no harm, sending it literally to the "four corners of the earth" piece by piece.

Granted he's a moose but Hickock45 had no trouble handling one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_pXTItRtkc

looks like he's having a blast:rotf:


I fear we may be veering off topic a little here

[Bill Murphy]

I would look for a replacement collet for the Savage choke rather than removing it. Check with Gun Parts in West Hurley, New York, and look on ebay regularly. I would buy a rusty Model 61 Winchester any time. They have value.

[Brian Dudley]

I get a real kick out of the old Ithaca Flues Auto and Burglar model 20g guns that had ulgra short barrels and pistol grip factory.
My local Sherriffs office has one on display along with some other sheriff history items. I guess they carried those Ithacas as standard issue for some time.

[Dean Romig]

This one is in Manchester, NH



.

[Rick Losey]

I had a friend who found one in his grandfather's effects and and decided to try it out.

a couple rounds was all he wanted of it

[Harryreed]

Reminds me of the John Wayne movie El Dorado. Mississippi (James Conn) could not hit sh$& with his sawed off double. Could scare everybody.

[Rick Losey]

Reminds me of the John Wayne movie El Dorado. Mississippi (James Conn) could not hit sh$& with his sawed off double. Could scare everybody.

not true- he hit a sign and John Wayne

[Harryreed]

Thats right, shot John Wayne in the butt????

[Harryreed]

I guess he could hit sh$&.

[Bill Zachow]

The State Police display at the Oswego gun show, for a number of years in the 80s, had a matched pair of what appeared to be factory LC Smith 20 gauge pistols. While you were not allowed to touch them, I examined them ver closely and their manufacture appeared to be factory. Keels in place and impeccable wood work. The trooper manning the display told me they were used as car guns in the 20s. I don't think the Staties display anymore. Politically uncorrect.

[Dean Romig]

I know a few police officers and retired police officers who have wonderful gun collections :shock:........................................... ........:corn:

[charlie cleveland]

first i ever heard of the lc smith pistols wish they could be displayed again...charlie

[Rick Losey]

once again a thread takes the road less traveled :rotf:

maybe we need a sawed-off forum :rolleyes:


Charlie - yes it would be nice to see them - but with our state's current attitude towards firearms, i would not expect to see a NY government agency do anything like that again.

[Aaron Bernstein]

Most gun forums I've seen have a NFA Title II section. Maybe we need one of those. That's where all the sort barrel shotguns fall under. SBS weapons must be fired from the shoulder though. The short barrel without the stock like that Ithaca counts as a NFA "any other weapon" It's a smooth bore pistol. If you have a SBR you can cut the stock off of it and all you have is a big pistol, but if you do that to a SBS, you need another $200 tax stamp to make a shotgun pistol. I think the .410 revolvers are exempt because the bore diameter is less than 1/2 inch and are rifled.
http://i.imgur.com/IW8simF.gif

[Rick Losey]

i was kidding - we are doing fine with Parkers and the longer the barrels the better

[Mills Morrison]

i was kidding - we are doing fine with Parkers and the longer the barrels the better

Amen!:cool:

[Aaron Bernstein]

i was kidding - we are doing fine with Parkers and the longer the barrels the better

I know, can you imagine someone cutting down a Parker to 18.5" and making a Joe Biden style Home Defense shotgun?:nono:

[Steve McCarty]

I know a few police officers and retired police officers who have wonderful gun collections :shock:........................................... ........:corn:

In 1978 my apartment was burglarized and I lost eleven guns. A mint Maynard Civil War carbine, an 1873 trapdoor carbine, a beautiful Smith carbine...both nearly new, a fantastic Spencer carbine, an 1876 Winchester in 45/60, my grandfather's old Remington model 11, a BSA double and an Auto - 5...that is all I can recall now.

They caught the guy two days later on his way to LA (I was living close to SFO.) The cops put an add in the paper saying that if anyone had lost some items in the resent rash of burglaries that they were to go to the police department and collect their stuff.

So I went over there. I asked about my guns. "What guns?" Was their reply.:cuss:

[wayne goerres]

One of the problems with being a resident of Calif. Chicago, New York and a few other areas around the country.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

This thread got me wondering, did they ever make that Savage in a Magnum? I've always thought that none of the A-5 clones were anything but 2 3/4.

Destry

[Aaron Bernstein]

Well a few snowstorms and college exams have sucked up most of my free time but I had a productive long weekend. I have updated photos of the Trojan, and I got to put 100 rounds through the winchester 22, it's a sweet shooter.

pay no attention to my bathroom decor, brightest lights in the house
http://i.imgur.com/inGdp63l.jpg

There is a small crack in the stock
http://i.imgur.com/tIY178ll.jpg
bot bad though

Found some color on the water table
http://i.imgur.com/HIfJaf1l.jpg

i see shiny
http://i.imgur.com/2WG3ZuAl.jpg

under the fore end
http://i.imgur.com/M9QJ4Ghl.jpg

I found some case color hiding from the years
http://i.imgur.com/39QZg4Il.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HrgaESkl.jpg

checkering is almost gone
http://i.imgur.com/y1W31wYl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZcwHHETl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/me79wRul.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/tlvTZADl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aQ2dpLKl.jpg

The left barrel choke is 0.705" or tighter, the right is looser Maybe Imp mod and full?
http://i.imgur.com/obZQFKvl.jpg

Both barrels look great inside
http://i.imgur.com/fPi2ZNbl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IPhmYuRl.jpg

[Aaron Bernstein]

For those who care: the Winchester 61
http://i.imgur.com/Kttwz0Il.jpg?1
Rusty glory
http://i.imgur.com/jbSgRNjl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XRA1yxNl.jpg
after oil and 0000 steel wool
http://i.imgur.com/f2aNss2l.jpg

looks clean on the inside
http://i.imgur.com/jdpiMC5l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Zdzx95tl.jpg?1

I put 100 rounds in a fist sized circle at 50 feet.
probably hadn't been shot in fifty years

[Dean Romig]

Aaron, pay attention to the stock head on your Trojan. It appears to be showing signs of splitting. You should take care of that before you shoot it much more. It may never get worse... or it may.

[Steve McCarty]

Aaron,

If the Savages are like the A5s, you can not use a Magnum barrel on a 2 3/4" gun. Even if it did fit, 3" shells would not function through the gun.

As an aside, I see many more Remington Model 11s and Auto 5s than I do the Savage guns. I don't believe the parts interchange between any of them.

Question: Is the Savage like the Model 11 or the Auto 5? There are differences, no speed load, or mag cutoff in the Model 11.

I used to shoot high base 2&3/4 shells in my grandfather's ancient Model 11 all of the time. Strong guns, but indeed, don't shoot a 3"er in a barrel not made for them.

[Steve McCarty]

Is that auto with the choke device a Winchester Model 11? (Or is it a model 10?) Looks kind of like one. They are weird shotguns. They have finger grooves etched into the barrels about a foot down from the muzzle to help you grab it and cycle the action. Not a very popular gun either.

[Aaron Bernstein]

Aaron, pay attention to the stock head on your Trojan. It appears to be showing signs of splitting. You should take care of that before you shoot it much more. It may never get worse... or it may.

I was going to have Mike Shultz at gunsmithing ltd take a look at it when I have the time/money since it has not been fired since the original owner passed away in the 70's

[Aaron Bernstein]

Is that auto with the choke device a Winchester Model 11? (Or is it a model 10?) Looks kind of like one. They are weird shotguns. They have finger grooves etched into the barrels about a foot down from the muzzle to help you grab it and cycle the action. Not a very popular gun either.

No it's another savage, a 775a 16 gauge with a mystery choke

I bought a savage adjustable choke collar but it does not fit, the threads are right but it only screws on about a half turn bore bottoming out.

It has no branding or markings on it whatsoever i now know it is not a "savage super choke" as that collet does not fit.
the threads are 16 TPI

anyone know what this is and how to make it complete?
http://i.imgur.com/gV48oKpl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ACWtlB0l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MGNednKl.jpg

[charlie cleveland]

thats a weird choke for sure..looks like it should be turned around and screwed in..just my thinking...charlie

[Dean Romig]

I had one of those chokes on my Stevens 20 ga. pump that I bought new in '64.

I didn't like it at all and hack-sawed the whole thing off. The gear is where the spring-loaded ball in the collar keeps the collar in position.

[Dave Suponski]

Aaron, I have known Mitch Shultz for years and he has done some nice work for me. He can take care of the stock for you.

[wayne goerres]

That wouldn't by chance be a poly choke.

[Steve McCarty]

That wouldn't by chance be a poly choke.

Naw, dat ain't no Polychoke. I wonder if that threaded bit will unscrew? Looks like it might. There was a chock system called "PowerPac". I think they were made by Packmeyer. I have a Winchester Model 12, 20 gauge with one. Looks like a Lyman choke.

[Dean Romig]

It may screw to the ported section but the ported section is welded to the barrel tube.