I think I'm going to throw up!!

[Brian Dillard]

While hunting Pheasant yesterday my buddy shot a nice rooster, I picked it up and offered to put it in my bag...while coaxing the bird in my pouch I dropped my 1928 CHE and the stock broke in half (actually three parts) right ar the trigger screw.:cuss:
I haven't had the courage to open up the towel it's wrapped in this morining but when I do later today, I'll post some pics....:banghead:

[Dean Romig]

If the broken stock was the original Parker Bros. stock I would not hesitate to send it to David Trevallion in Maine. Closer to you though, I would recommend Dennis, aka The Stock Doctor in Oregon I believe.

[C Roger Giles]

Brian;

Oh my God and werse yet it happened to my dream gun.

I am sure it can be put back close to original via modern epoxys and skill.

Again oh my God I need a Famous Grouse after this; Roger

[Bruce Day]

Recommend Stock Doc in Oregon, but he is a year out.

Trevallion isn't taking any more new customer repair jobs for the time being.

I suspect the stock was already cracked to break from just a drop. They use a dilute SuperGlue, isocyanide. Its possible to fix yourself if you have all the pieces. Jim Williams here on site may be able to help. You might check for oil saturation as a cause of weakness.

[Brian Dillard]

Well here ya go.... pics of the carnage. It makes my stomach turn just to look at it.
Bruce, there were NO cracks...not a hairline...nothing. If you look at the second pic you can see it cracked along the grain and right thru the trigger screw hole.

[Bruce Day]

I think it needs to be pinned and glued and Dennis whats his name can do that so well that you won't be able to tell. The wood looks solid.

Cracks are usually through the cheeks or back from the top tang.

You often see this type of break from a fall where a person lands on the gun or tries to break his fall with the stock. This one it seems fell just right ( wrong). Lord knows I've stepped in enough badger and woodchuck holes while walking through high CRP that it could have happened.

[Brian Dillard]

It was like an out of body experience...I dropped it maybe 3 feet down to the ground while fussing with a flopping rooster. I didn't think anything of it so I kept putting that bird in my bag then turned around and it was like one of my kids just got run over by a car!!

I'll give Dennis a call and see what his thoughts are, thanks Dean and Bruce.

Oh and Rodger, I didn't have any Famous Grouse with me but washed down quite a bit of Makers Mark while walking around working my dog for two buddies carrying my Parker Brothers Fire Wood thru the field.

[Dean Romig]

Of course, that grain across the wrist doesn't help at all in the strength department. Highly figured wood like yours is a very good example of why Parker Bros installed the hickory reinforcing rod from the butt right up through the wrist of the stock.

[Dave Suponski]

Brian,I feel your pain...:crying: Hope this helps...thestockdr@riflemag.com 1-541-483-2182

Whats his name is Dennis Smith He does great work!

[Eric Eis]

I have a guy here in Michigan that could probably fix that. A number of members on the BBS have used him and all have been pleased

[Bruce Day]

Yes, beautiful wood but the grain should have been better ( straighter ) through the wrist. I think it needs to be reinforced by a strong pin, not merely glued, so it won't happen again.

[Kevin McCormack]

Brian, now that you have been docented through all the drama and "what ifs?", contact Dave Wolf in Waco, TX. He has performed some truly miraculous stock repairs, including a spectacular DHE of mine that cracked just like yours did, only from recoil, not being dropped. The 100+ year old Circassian was as dry as a matchstick and fractured on an oblique angle running just behind the grip cap up to and through the aft of the top tang. The repair is undetectable. Be patient and have it done right the first time; this can be fixed.

[David Hamming]

J. David Yale in Yellow Jacket CO has done some nice work for me in the past.

[Dean Romig]

Oh, by the way, one thing we've all neglected to say is "caveat emptor" of course.

[Francis Morin]

But well worth restoring--I'm not sure who Eric (brother Michigander) was mentioning, but I recommend along with the other top drawer master gunsmiths previously listed- Brad Bachelder in Grand Rapids- If this "insight" helps, read the "project Parker" article I submitted to Austin Hogan- Brad found a later VH-GH No 2 frame size stock to fit the "project' GHE I own-- it has a crack at the wrist- but as it was a pg stock and had my dims. almost to a T-- I had Brad repair it and fit it- The GHE is still "in the rough" a bit- BUT you can't even see the surface scrack in the yet unrecut grip checking-

I'll let Brad speak for himself as to his techniques, but I am right now having him repair a previously repaired (by amateur) grip stress crack in my son-in-law's 20 some year old Browning medallion BA in .270Win. It is a LH actioned rifle, so replacement stocks for Southpaws are a tad harder to come by- Brad has done many similar repairs on BA rifles in harsh recoil calibres (.300 W/B Mag, .338 Win Mag- .375Mag etc) and never had one come back afterwards-

I am not an expert on stocking or woods and grains and the stresses and aging moisture/dryness factors during storage, but I keep Humid-Packs in the sound holes in my vintage Martin guitars during the winters- in the cases- I have seen other fine guitars with the tops buckled due to dryness-

Any fine Parker is well worth restoring/repairing- and as you have the scarce CHE grade-I would never tell another person how to spend their $- but if I were fortunate to have such a fine grade Parker- I would sent it to Brad--

Brad Bachelder- Grand Rapids MI- phone 616-459-3636 email at bachelder firearm@aol.com Hours are Tuesdays-Fridays 10:00 to 5:00, Brad's wife Lori is the manager- she can get you taken care of--

I think Maker's mark is fine bourbon- along with George Dickel and Old Cabin Still-a fine cure for snakebite or a woodchuck attack on CRP lands too!!:duck:

[Richard Flanders]

Dickel! Yes. thank you Francis. I've got two vintage Martins; My '70 D-35 finally split the bookmatch seam behind the bridge after 25yrs of the dryness up here. In summer you can't see it. My '68 Brazilian D-28 is still holding but I fear it with every passing year...

[Dean Romig]

Rich, sell them before they get any worse and invest the proceeds in fine old Parkers.

[Jim Williams]

A gun of that Grade and value deserves the very best craftsman available. There's no doubt in my mind that the culprit is that beautifully figured wood. Always a trade-off between beauty and utility in that department. It definitely needs reinforcement during the repair. Either a very hard wood dowel, or pins. I really like the use of 4130 chrome-moly aircraft tubing for that. MAKE SURE YOU SAVE EVERY LITTLE SLIVER AND SPLINTER FOR THE REPAIRMAN. If you think you missed any, go back to the scene of the crime (I know - if you can find it again) and look for them. Even those little pieces that seem inconsequential will make the repair job much easier. The easier it is, the better it will look!

Richard Flanders - Holy Cow man! Are you not keeping a hygrometer and case humidifier in the case with those Martins up there in that arid deep freeze you call a state?? A Braz D-28 is Holy Grail stuff. Get with the program, son! (But DON'T use the Planet Waves humidifier that comes in the squishy bags that fit into a cloth sleeve. When they dry out they crystallize, rupture open and leak all over the guitar and case lining. They nearly ruined a high-end Taylor of mine. I think/hope they've been taken off the market).

Edit: I forgot to say how jealous I am. This thing started out about a Grade 4 Parker and now we've added vintage Martins to the mix. Just how much is a guy expected to endure in one thread?

[Brian Dillard]

Of course, that grain across the wrist doesn't help at all in the strength department. Highly figured wood like yours is a very good example of why Parker Bros installed the hickory reinforcing rod from the butt right up through the wrist of the stock.

Dean, I'm confused a bit. When did Parker begin to install a "hickory reinforcing rod from the butt thru the wrist"? This gun is a 1928 CHE and has no such rod in it. Was this an addition that Remington added to the fold when they took over? I certainly understand the application and obvious need for such a rod, wish mine had had one from the factory.

[Brian Dillard]

J. David Yale in Yellow Jacket CO has done some nice work for me in the past.

David Yale has two of my DH guns at this moment...funny enough that's why I was hunting with the CHE. He's repairing one that began doubleing and doing a full clean on the other. I spoke to him this morning and asked if I could have one back ASAP so I don't have to go and shoot my LC Smith.

[Francis Morin]

Sounds like we've got close cousins- I have a 1970 HD-28 and a 1972 HD-35. I use the Dampit series with the clear plastic soundhole cover- the green tube is hydroscopic- about every third day I re-dunk them- then back into the Martins- they also feature a Humidity metering visual strip- about 50 to 60 when they are in their Geib cases is best for where I am in Central MI--If you need the info- it is Dampits, Inc. PO Box 493-- Radio City Station New York, NY 10101--

I bought the grandkids (5 and 4) the Baby Taylor for Xmas-looks like they'll have fun- I started playing about 15 years ago- mainly Blues and Bluegrass. I also play Dobro (std G open tuning) and a friend is teaching me the upright Bass too- never too old to learn--:bigbye:

[Richard Flanders]

I know the Dampits. I used to have several and have one left of fiddle size. I used to work at Elderly Instruments when they were getting started. Learned a lot there....

[calvin humburg]

Ok what in sam hill is "caveat emptor" ch

[Dave Suponski]

Calvin,I means "Buyer Beware"

[Dean Romig]

Brian, Charles A. King, Superintendant of the Parker Bros. Gun Works invented and patented on September 10, 1895 the Buttstock Reinforcing Rod.
I quote from page 127, Vol. 1 of Ther Parker Story King's own words:

"The use of woods of the so-called "curly" varieties is a well-known desideratum in the manufacture of stocks for shotguns and rifles, in order to get the peculiar ornamental effect thereof. In making a gunstock of wood of one of these curly varieties it is a matter of very frequent occurence that the grain of the wood at the neck or grip of the stock does not run lengthwise of that neck , but across it , which is something that renders the neck very liable indeed to breakage. So great is this liability of breakage in cases where the grain runs across rather than with the length of the neck or grip, manufactures of guns reject and refrain from using a large percentage of the very handsomest gunstocks they produce, and the loss resulting therefrom is a serious matter."

It would appear that not an awful lot of Parkers had this reinforcing rod installed. There is a 1907 DHE with the patent stamp in the stockwood immediately behind the grip cap indicating it had the rod installed and there are a number of Parkers with skeleton buttplates where the end of the rod appears in the correct position of an in-line boring for this rod but most of these lack the patent stamp.
It is unknown when this practice was discontinued but, in the case of this CH example, it had obviously been discontinued by then . . . how very unfortunately.

[Jim Williams]

Dampits are probably the way to go with what's available now. If you haven't seen them before, Bob Taylor offers some great videos on their website about humidifying. These show the restoration of a severely dehydrated/damaged guitar:

http://www.taylorguitars.com/see-hear/default.aspx?id=1004

There are three videos on humidity. One that shows the effects, another that shows restoring a dry guitar, and another where they intentionally dry one out in a humidity chamber. Very interesting.

Edit: Well, that link doesn't take you there directly. There's a menu on the right side and the humidity videos can be found under the Performance/Maintenance Tips tab of that menu.

Jim

[Chuck Bishop]

The use of the hickory reinforcing rod will not necessarily prevent the stock from cracking or breaking. I have a 1925 PH fluid steel that was my grandfathers. As far back as I can remember this stock had cracked behind the top tang and across both sides of the pistol grip deep enough that with a little twisting, the cracks would widen. It is possible however that this rod kept the stock from completely breaking over the years of shooting it. This stock had the hickory reinforcing rod in it along with the patent stamp behind the grip cap. According to Stockfixers, they had never seen this modification on any of the Parkers they've worked on so it must have been pretty rare. I suspect that my stock was an old one from years ago that Parker decided to use up. Either the time and expense to install the rod or possibly that it didn't work as planned resulted in Parker not doing all the stocks that way. I sent the stock to Stockfixers in Wyoming for repair.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks for the input Chuck... very interesting.

[Larry Frey]

Dickel! Yes. thank you Francis. I've got two vintage Martins; My '70 D-35 finally split the bookmatch seam behind the bridge after 25yrs of the dryness up here. In summer you can't see it. My '68 Brazilian D-28 is still holding but I fear it with every passing year...

Richard I went into my rec-room one morning to find the bridge on my 70's Gibson Hummingbird completely split in two.:crying: I sent it to the Gibson repair facility in Nashville TN. for an estimated repair time of 6 months. That was two and a half years ago.:cuss: So you think some gunsmiths are independent SOB's well these people have been imposible.:banghead:

[Francis Morin]

A good friend who has taught me many great Blues licks- he started playing at age 8-- took a Church group on a summer tour to Nashville- his "roadie" axe is a Takamine- cut away- full 25.25 scale fretboard- D body like the Martin Dreadnoughts and the Gibson Sunburst- the neck has warped a bit- he had a Gospel gig in two days- took the Taka to Gruen's in Nashville- Guess what- they told him: "We send all our guitars up to Elderly's in Lansing, MI for repair, etc." He borrowed a Songbird from a local friend and used that-

Stan Werblin started that great operation about 25-30 years ago, in an old school stroage building on Washington St. in downtown Lansing- right near the LCC and the Capital Bldg.- It is called "Elderly' for the "Vintage" guitars and other stringed instruments, both new and used, they sell and service. They may well be the largest retailer of new Martins in the US of A- not sure.

I had them put a Fishman pickup in my HD-35 and they did a first class job- they also did a neck and re-fretting on the HD-28- I don't too much about the new Gibson in Nashville, believe they went out to MT. first- also heard they bought the Dobro (Dopera Brothers- National Guitar Chicago era) patent rights. I play a Scheerhorn Dobro (resonator guitar) as I have known Tim for years and helped him pack up the machinery (from Steelcase) when he first left Grand Rapids and went to Nashville-

Nashville is a great area indeed, but a bit tricky to get "inside of"- IMO--:bigbye:

[Larry Frey]

Francis,
I hope I don't have to go thru this again but if I do I will keep Elderly's in mind.:bigbye:

[Richard Flanders]

Stan Werblin started that great operation about 25-30 years ago, in an old school stroage building on Washington St. in downtown Lansing- right near the LCC and the Capital Bldg.- It is called "Elderly' for the "Vintage" guitars and other stringed instruments, both new and used, they sell and service. They may well be the largest retailer of new Martins in the US of A- not sure.

Elderly started in a very small basement room in East Lansing in about 1972. I doubt that room was more than 12x16 if that. When they outgrew the basement they moved to downtown Lansing.

[Dean Romig]

Brian, this thread may get back around to broken stocks on Parkers but it looks like we'll have to let it run it's course of Martins, Dobros, Gibsons and all the dealers and repair shops specializing in them. Be patient, we'll get back to "throwing up" over broken Parker stocks and the causes thereof soon enough.

:corn:

[Don Kaas]

A similar thing happened at my gun club a few years. A fellow member bumped my Perazzi SC3 off the gunrack and it fell on the grass barrels first and the stock shattered on the bottom of the wooden rack as the stock bounced on it. Steel throughbolt, I had taken that gun around the world and shot many thousands of rounds with it...go figure. (I am sure Bruce would be just as critical of Daniele Perazzi's choice of wood as he is of Parker Bros....) I just threw the pieces in bag and had the thing re-stocked. On the related subject of CH guns with the patent rod, I have a 34" CHE 207,298 a bit later than Chuck's gun with the rod. The stock was cracked completely through the wrist of the pistol grip when I got it from a member here. I just had that one restocked too and put away the original wood...Wood merchants and stockers have to make a living too...

[Linn Matthews]

Regarding internal support for a stock. I think a carbon composite rod would be the thing to use. It is exceptionally strong, light weight and will bond well with any epoxy adhesive used to fix it into place.

[bruce willis]

sorry about your stock. once while duck hunting in the ca delta in a makeshift floating blind my best friend dropped his LC Smith ideal grade on the gunnel of the aluminum boat. it broke of the stock which was beautiful. he was sick also, and I was shocked. he eventually got it repaired at considerable expense. when I hunt with my 1906 VH 12 ga. I worry some when in the boat or canoe with the dogs and all the gear. now my friend and I duck hunt with synthetic stocked mossberg 500s, and remington 870s in the boat and canoe on really bad weather days. it seems with some of my friends with really high end guns they tend to worry more about their gun than enjoy the hunt, especially with the kind of duck hunting we do. I can understand their worry, I would too.

[Mike Shepherd]

I have a nice little Parker O Frame DHE with 28" barrels, weighs 6lbs 1oz. Three years ago, while chasing Bobwhites, I fell while and broke the stock. I sent it off to JJ Perodeau and had him fix it. I don't think I could tell it was broken if I didn't already know it.

The bad news is I am paranoid about buying a gun in the ususally dark gunshow environment. I have lost faith in my ability to spot repaired broken stocks.

Best,

Mike

[Larry Frey]

The bad news is I am paranoid about buying a gun in the ususally dark gunshow environment. I have lost faith in my ability to spot repaired broken stocks.

Best,

Mike

I hear that Mike. I owned and shot an O frame 16 gage for four or five years before realizing it had a repaired wrist.

[E Robert Fabian]

I feel a broken stock repaired properly is much stronger than a original.

[Bruce Day]

(I am sure Bruce would be just as critical of Daniele Perazzi's choice of wood as he is of Parker Bros....)


Lets see, I said the same thing about the wood being beautiful but weak in the wrist and needing reinforcement as at least five other people, yet I get the snide and abrasive comment from Don.

Don, I don't know, I haven't seen your Perazzi, don't know much about them, never owned one and only shot one a few times so I can't comment, so please don't put words in my mouth or statements I never made or would make.

[Robert Delk]

in 2001 I attended the auction of R.J. Anton's estate. He was a well known stockmaker here in Iowa. I bought most of the stocks that were there and got quite a few broken factory stocks for everything from model 12s to Charles Dalys,Smiths,a couple of Ithaca sbt's and a couple of very high grade Perazzi's. Seems that any gun is a candidate for a broken stock if used enough.Still have a unreal nice stock for a 3200 that should be fixed.Looks like it was never used but it broke right through the grip at an angle.

[Brian Dillard]

Well after much thought and input from this group, I am going to repair the original stock. As noted, I think it will be much stronger then and since I am only the "current keeper" of a very special gun; I don't want to make choices for someone else down the road.
So, I'm packing it up now and shipping it off tomorrow for who knows how long. In the end, I think I picked up all the pieces and hopefully it can be repaired better than new.
Thanks again for all the advice here in...I'm off to find a quiet spot and a glass (or three) of Jameson Irish Whiskey with just a dollop of water!!

[Richard Flanders]

Let us know how it goes Brian. I suspect you'll hardly be able to see a repair on such a clean break, assuming you found all the pieces. What a shame. The only gun I ever fell on and broke was an Ithaca 37.

[Francis Morin]

I like Jamesons- also Bushmills and a very fine neighbor who likes to cook game in her Wok- stir fry- I had given her some mallard and pheasant breasts, and she gave me a bottle of Bushmills black Label for Xmas- The dollop of branch water and a some "rocks" in a proper tumbler- a good fire in the fireplace, a Gene Hill book or two at hand-- All good. Glad you decided to have the CHE repaired, I also picked up on your thread of "temporary custody" as some day we will all be a part of the memories of others younger that we are, and I wonder if there will be any gunning left for their legacy.

Gene Hill in his 1985 book "A Listening Walk" suggested back then that some of the "anti hunting-gunning" groups didn't always oppose population control of game animals, they just wanted the killing of excess populations (deer I believe was the theme) by a limited group of "technicians" and not the general public- almost like the anti-gun groups that believe only LE officers should own and carry guns-Never read Gene's take on Irish Whiskies anywhere, he mentioned Virginia Genlteman, Old Forrester and Jack D.:bigbye: