#1351 questions & issues

[Scott Boal]

Hi everybody -

I'm a newcomer to the forum living near Seattle and would value your insights and best thoughts. You've hear this story many times before: I inherited a Parker Brothers gun years ago and am now in the process of "lightening the load" as life progresses.

The inherited gun is #1351 which I understand from the forum is a pretty low serial number. If you look at my album Parker #1351, you can see that it is a beautiful gun - as all Parkers are, really - but that it has a nasty broken stock. The triggers are broken; the right trigger works fine but the left trigger won't hold. It appears to me that the only missing parts are the triggers and two pieces of the stock. The buttplate has some rust. The barrels look "cleanish" but not mirror-like.

I don't have the family story that would make this gun an heirloom for my next generation. So here are my concerns.

I'd like the gun to eventually go to a good home where it can become a family heirloom or a featured spot in a display. But is best to pay for some level of restoration and then sell OR sell to a collector first as is and let him/her restore as desired? I have done nothing to it so far because I understand both the value of patina and the danger of bad restorations.

I'm also prepared to learn that this is NOT a valuable gun and that I should just forget about it. But please give me your thoughts and perspectives as I try to honor the history and builders of this gun.

Scott

[wayne goerres]

Hi Scott Your parker was made before parker kept records. I think it is what is refurred to as a T latch. If I am incorrect some one will chime in and correct me. Unfortunatley your stock is a mess. There appears to be wood missing where it is broken. The triggers are going to be hard to find or repair. You dont say what gauge it is so assumeing it is a twelve gauge and it has no sentamental value to you the cost of restoration would leave you way in the hole. These guns are like old cars. You restore them because you love them and you dont care how much they cost you.It is either a parts gun or a huge project gun and the calue is pretty low. Thats just my opinion.

[Rick Losey]

sad, must have been a nice gun once.

what are the bores like? I would also wonder if the locks sustained any damage when that traumatic event occurred.

Along with the triggers, the trigger guard is also broken. both will be very difficult to find (a good tig welder might save the guard - but at more cost)

the very early number and damascus barrels (depending on condition) seem to be the good points, but even then, an equally early gun needing the parts would not be common.

[Dean Romig]

The poor thing looks like it was run over by a Conestoga wagon.
The back end of the trigger plate is broken off and missing, as are several original screws. I agree with Waynes comparison to restoring old cars.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Scott, It appears as you have what I would call a 135.00 grade early lifter with pin, and damascus barrels, I would check to verify the gauge, I have 1147, a true 14ga gun it is pictured in the serialization book as well as several places in the Parker Story, if you want to see the comparison, Gary

[Dean Romig]

I photographed this Parker F.9.R., B2505 - same grade, same features, same period - back in 2010.


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[wayne goerres]

Scott I was wrong about it being a T latch. It is just an early lifter. When I saw that pin sticking up I confused it with the T latch.

[Brian Dudley]

Too bad about the damage to that gun. Even the trigger plate is broken.
I would be curious to see more of the top of the gun. It looks like we have another one that has had the upper tang lengthened on. By a lot too.

[Rick Losey]

up for a real challenge Brian??? :rotf:

the more i look at this gun, the more I am sure some one had a very bad day those very many years ago, I can only imagine the feeling in the pit of his stomach. I'd have been sick for a month

[Dean Romig]

I'm thinking the upper tang should have been lengthened another inch or two :eek:

[Brian Dudley]

Challenge... I do have every part that is needed for that one. Minus a stock.

Sure dean... I think the tang should go right up over the comb and be part of the buttplate. Would it then be considered "Full Tang"?

[edgarspencer]

"Anything that can be built, Can be rebuilt."

[Dean Romig]

Some Brit guns had the top tang contour up onto the comb for a bit. Maybe not such a bad idea...

[Rick Losey]

Some Brit guns had the top tang contour up onto the comb for a bit. Maybe not such a bad idea...

it was also common in some schools of southern flitnlock long rifles

[Richard Flanders]

You got that right Edgar...

[Scott Boal]

Thanks for all your insight and thoughts about this sad beauty. We got a rare sunny winter day in Seattle and I snapped the photo below.

[Jeff Bonadurer]

Hi Scott,
We're kind of neighbors. I live in Portland. My first Parker Bros. shotgun
was a lifter. I cleaned it up and have it on display on a mantel.
Your Parker is worth the time and money to repair, in my opinion.
If you ever travel down this way let me know. I could help with
any welding repairs like the trigger guard bow and trigger plate rebuild.
Nice very early Parker with Damascus steel barrels.

Best regards,

Jeff

[Scott Boal]

Here's a photo of the extended upper tang.

I can't yet get any good photos of the bores but will keep trying. First attempts just "look like a light at the end of two tunnels"!

[Brian Dudley]

Yup... About 2.5" added. But the good news is that in the event of a "make things right" scenario, that would not be a difficult fix. The line of the old tang is still very visable. So the extention may just be soft soldered in place. There would have been worse off and harder to correct ways of adding that tang.

Here is a photo of an extended tang on a back action that I own.

30628


I would not stress about photos of the bores. It is very hard to get good pictures of bores and even then, they may not tell much. Physical description is usually just fine.

[Scott Boal]

Thanks for the info. and insight everyone. I've learned so much that I am getting a better idea of what I don't know.

So here's another question that may show my ignorance...

I assume that a tang extension was an attempt to strengthen a weak stock and keep a gun usable for a bit longer. In the gun collecting/restoration world, does a tang extension require replacement or is there a place for retaining the extended tang and letting it be part of the gun's history? Does "restoration" demand tang replacement while "refurbishment" allows keeping the tang extension?

[Dean Romig]

I agree with your assumption as to the reason for the extended tang and if it were my gun I would leave it there as part of the gun's history, if it was well made, and simply work around it.

Here's another, 18544, with a homemade tang extension that was featured in Parker Pages a couple of years ago.



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[edgarspencer]

That is a very precise splice, Dean. Is it welded on?

[Brian Dudley]

The retaining of a tang extension is, in my opinion something that should be done of not much else if being done to the gun. Or is refurbishment of the existing good parts is being done.
But, if a gun were being completely restored. Or in your guns case, a stock needs replacing due to catastrophic damage, it is my opinion that a tang extension be removed and the gang made correct again.
The only scenario that it would really justify it being left is if there is some way to document and prove that it was special order factory work.

[Dean Romig]

So Scott, as you can see, opinions will vary.

[Mike Franzen]

Restore the gun or sell it to someone who will. It's very satisfying to see one of these wrecks brought back by one of the wizards of wood and metal. It won't be cheap. It won't be worth what you have in it. But you will have saved another Parker. Put your initials on the shield and become part of that guns history.

[Dean Romig]

That is a very precise splice, Dean. Is it welded on?


Yes it is welded.

[Harry Schlott]

.Hello All,
I have owned this particular Parker for close to 30 years. After seeing all the beautiful examples of restoration work on these pages, I've decided to try and bring this old girl back to it former glory.
My hopes are that I could get some advise as to which way to go. It is evident to me that someone had tried to restore it long before I acquired it. I bought it from a older woman who said that she only remembers it hanging over the mantel for as long as she can remember.
The stock looks like some one took a rasp to it as the wood is a good 1/32- of the metal. Other than that, the barrel ring very nicely, There is some pitting. Did I mention that it is 12 ga? 30" barrels and all in all in decent shape IMHO. The only stamps I can find are what looks like F.9.2. on inside the reciever, The top rib has " Parker Brothers,Meriden Conn
Damascus Steel.
Any help or information would greatly be appreciated.
Harry

[Mills Morrison]

The good news is the stock looks solid which is often not the case with early hammer guns. Looks like the receiver was blued at some point. My suggestion is to send it to a reputable gunsmith who knows Parkers and get them to evaluate it for you. The barrels being safe is the big part. I looks like an attractive early Parker.

Oh, don't forget to join PGCA where you can learn more about it and also order a research letter. Looks like there are surviving records on 3600, so you would enjoy learning more about your gun.