Old School Reloading

[Mike Franzen]

i bought an antique shell loader. Does anyone have a copy of the instructions or can you point me in the right direction? Does this look like everything i need?

[Rick Losey]

and 20 gauge - very nice find, looks to be nearly unused

[Mike Franzen]

Thanks. It's in great shape. But, I'm not sure it's all there

[Rick Losey]

i cannot see that anything is missing except a measure

the decapping rod should be under the knob of the wood plunger rod, the knob can be switched from one end to the other

to decap the hull, it sets on the round wood piece with the hole and tap the rod to drive the old one out

the folding piece with the round opening is the primer set tool

the funnel goes in the hull to support the process of powder, wad and shot

the small ring is not for reloading - its to remove a stuck shell from the chamber

[Mike Franzen]

I'll go see if that knob comes off

[Mike Franzen]

You were right Rick! I just deprimed my first case

[Dean Romig]

That's a rare find in that condition.

[charlie cleveland]

good find now go put it to work... charlie
...

[Mark Landskov]

The extractor is very handy when you complete your roll crimp. The shell can become wedged in the turnover head and the extractor makes it easier to remove the shell. Don't be alarmed at the appearance of the primer after seating it with that tool. I have seen many old-time handloads with primers that were seated with cappers of different designs and they made me wonder how they didn't go off during the seating process. After acquiring numerous tools of varying quality, it is easy to see the difference between them. Also, the antique tools were often intended to seat a No. 2 primer, which was the large pistol primer. A modern battery cup primer will require much more force to seat. Have fun!

[Brian Dudley]

You do look to has most all of what you need except a powder and shot measure.
Reloading with the old tools can be slow and tedious, but it is fun.

The only thing you may have trouble with is the roll crimped. Those hand crank ones can be tough to get a really good tight and clean crimp with. And the pressure arm can leave marks in the brass rim sometimes.

I like using the roll crimp tool that chucks up in a drill press. It is fast and you get excellent crimps with it.

[Dave Suponski]

Mike, Here is a BGI 20 gauge set of mine. Looks like you have what you need except for the powder/shot measure sir.

[Mike Franzen]

Thanks to all. Now all I need is the step by step instructions that tell how to actually load shells. Brian, where can I get the drill press crimper?

[Rick Losey]

the process would be the same as the old lee loader hand kits


instructions for them are in post #16 here
http://www.shootersforum.com/shotguns-shotgunning-shotshell-reloading/36906-lee-loader-instructions.html

not sure sure if this is where Brian got his - but its a good source
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Original-Roll-Crimping-Tool-10ga/productinfo/ROLL20/

[Mike Franzen]

Thanks again Rick. Have any of you guys actually used one of these loaders? I'm also wondering about resizing the hulls.

[edgarspencer]

The only thing you may have trouble with is the roll crimped. Those hand crank ones can be tough to get a really good tight and clean crimp with. And the pressure arm can leave marks in the brass rim sometimes.

I like using the roll crimp tool that chucks up in a drill press. It is fast and you get excellent crimps with it.

My experience with recently, I'm finding it to be much the opposite, Brian.
I load my NPE Chedites in my MEC, up to the dropping of shot. Then take it out and put the overshot card in. My old BGI roll crimper does a beautiful crimp with 5 turns of the crank, I've yet to have any trouble getting a crimped shell right out, and it's much less trouble than the drill press crimper. Also, the handle that pushes the shell into the crimper leaves no gouges or marks. It's just enough to keep the shell from turning. The vice necessary to hold a shell on the drill press table can deform the brass. Someone on here uses a MEC collet sizer to hold their shells, and that one won't deform the brass.
I have a few of the old roll crimpers, and clearly, some are much better than others. There was an auction last week that had MANY of these old loading tools. Like, maybe 75 roll crimpers.

[Robin Lewis]

There was a post where someone asked for details on the re-enforcing screw Parker used on beavertail forends, so I thought I might find the patent on that for them. But, I was distracted by this; I found this interesting so I thought I would share it with you. A "CARTRIDGE-CLOSING MACHINE" from Charles Parker Co.:corn:

[John Farrell]

The correct use of the funnel thingy is the hull slips into it and the funnel end aids in dropping the powder into the hull, sliding the wads into the powder charged hull, then the shot is poured in, again allowing the funnel to aid in charging the hull. All this while you are holding the funnel upright and doing everything with your other hand. You'll become ambidextrous before you know it.

Now, about your dominant hand . . .

[John Farrell]

A photo of the powder/shot scoop missing from the set

[John Farrell]

You can get a drill press roll crimping device from Precision Reloading (800-223-0900). They also have a hull trimmer that goes with their D-Loader that will trim to 2 1/2" if you need that size.

[Mike Franzen]

Robin do you know if they ever went into production?

[Robin Lewis]

No Mike, I have never seen one. I just ran across what I posted while surfing the internet. I would assume that after going to the expense and bother to file a patent that they would make a few?

[edgarspencer]

You can get a drill press roll crimping device from Precision Reloading (800-223-0900). They also have a hull trimmer that goes with their D-Loader that will trim to 2 1/2" if you need that size.

Doesn't anyone make their own stuff anymore? I made this hull trimmer in an hour or two, it's fully adjustable, and the cut edge of my 2 1/2" hulls is cleaner than the NPE 2 3/4" I start with.

[wayne goerres]

Are those new paper hulls Edger and if so were do you buy them.

[Paul Harm]

Edger, can't tell how you're cutting the shell. Also, not everyone has the necessary equipment or knowledge to make something like you're showing. I just use the bandsaw with a piece of 1X4 clamped to the table for a guide or the old razor stuck in a wooden dowel.

[edgarspencer]

The wooden dowel is turned to the ID of the shell casing and clamped in place to set the length of the cut. Each shell is slid on, the arm is closed, so that a razor blade side cuts into it, and the shell is rotated. the cut is cleaner than the new case, prior to cutting, and this is why the rolled crimps are so nice as there is no ragged cardboard edge.

[Richard Flanders]

Nice trimmer Edgar. I started my reloading in the early 60's with one of these old reloading sets... most of which I still have. Somehow over the years I lost the powder/shot measure and the dowel portion of the primer punch/seater. I have various 12ga and 10ga parts left. As for the roll crimpers there are two kinds. One has a stamped brass head, the other is machined. I had MUCH better results with the machined crimping head back in the day. I still have them both upstairs and can post a pic if necessary but it's easy to tell the difference. You can easily leave marks on the rim if you bear down too hard while rolling a crimp. You just have to experiment and get used to it. You can make very nice reloads with these old tools. I think the primer issue is because "they just ain't made like they usta be". The primers I punch out of vintage paper shells are a lot stouter than what they make today. Perhaps that's why our vintage hammer guns have firing pins that put one hell of a dent in the primers. Which came first - the hvy springs and large firing pins or the thick primers?? Modern firing pins are nowhere near as large in diameter as they are in some vintage hammer guns. The punching pin on these old cast metal sets is generally rounded also and can easily dent modern primers if they go in hard, especially since they are hinged and do not push quite straight down as a primer starts to seat if I remember correctly. It's easier to get the primer mostly seated using the wad seating dowel and a hard wood or aluminum block as a base if you can do it without damaging the base wad in the process.

[Mark Landskov]

From the beginning, brass shotshells used Berdan or No. 2 Boxer primers. These primers were made of brass or copper and were rounded, thus, the concave seating punch found on numerous antique priming tools. Paper shotshells used the No. 2 primer, which was also the standard large pistol primer, well into the 20th century. My shotshell reloading experience is slim. I deprimed and seated No. 209 primers in R-P 10 gauge hulls by hand. The amount of force required to perform these tasks was substantially greater than the force required to deprime and seat a large pistol primer (No. 2) in any metallic case. The majority of the tong type priming tools were designed for Berdan or Boxer primers and may not produce satisfactory results with modern battery cup shotshell primers. The removable wooden knob on an antique decapper/wad seater would probably split if used to deprime or seat No. 209 primers. Good Luck!

[Paul Harm]

Fooling around one day, I put a recess in the center of the flat end of the dowel meant for seating a primer - got the idea from the old " Lee " reloading tool. That, and the small pin sticking out of the dowel for depriming is small enough to push out just the center of a modern shotgun primer. You'll end up with what looks like a pistol or rifle primer on the bench. Makes me wonder if that's what shotgun primers are with a ring attached.

[John Farrell]

Paul - some years ago I was talking to one of the original members of a club I shot at and we got into a discussion about reloading costs. He talked about when he first started in the reloading game he used a hand loading tool for roll crimping his shells and a small pliers like tool that pierced and popped the primer cup out of a shotgun shell; and then re-primed with a pistol primer or maybe he meant a small rifle primer such as is used in a .22 Hornet. He said when the new complete primer as we now use arrived on the scene, it was easier, although costlier, to reload.

I got the decapper tool from Walter and had it around here for a long time but sold it at a gun show to a collector. I used it to decap some primers and it worked pretty slick but was time consuming to do 100 hulls. Plus, I never knew which primer to use in the reloaded hulls so never went further than doing what you described.

[Jeff Kuss]

The parker closer is shown in the Parker Story and also is in the Hardware catalog. I'll take a picture of the two variations when my camera battery recharges.

[Jeff Kuss]

parker closers

[Richard Flanders]

Those Parker tools look like they have the machined head that should do a good job of crimping.

[charlie cleveland]

nice...i bet they make good crimps like richard said...charlie

[John Farrell]

Paul - the tool in the photo that looks like a pair of pliers is the de-capping tool which was used to remove the primer from the shotgun hulls of days gone by. The hull was placed in the half round ring with the rim level with the edge of the ring. The tool had a icepick kind of finger that punctured the primer and then removed it as the tool was operated.

As you look at the picker, just below it in the photo is where a hull was placed to reprime. (You can see the indication of a half round ring where the hull was placed). While the hull was in the tool a new primer was pressed in by that little tit shown. Then the handles were opened fully and the re-primed hull was removed and the next dropped into the tool.

[Mark Landskov]

That is a nice Remington Berdan re/decapper you have, John! The patent date should be stamped on the wooden handle.

[Paul Harm]

I have original 12 and 10ga brass shells. With mine, and I'm not saying all, the 12's take small rifle or pistol primers, and the 10's take large rifle or pistol primers. Pete, in the Alcan thread, shows a old Alcan reloading manual and it shows about 4 different sizes of primers. Go figure.