8 gauge

[Robert Sziemkiewicz]

I finally got lucky!!! Time and time again someone always beats me to a great deal but not this time. I hit the jackpot-an 8 GAUGE. I'll post pics this weekend. Even better yet, it is all there and all original.

[Rich Anderson]

Congratulations, I look forward to the pictures. Now you will need a new quest:rotf:

[Mills Morrison]

Good for you. I hope to complete my quest for one sometime soon.

[Dean Romig]

But is it a Parker?

[charlie cleveland]

looking forward to hearing about and seeing this 8 ga...charlie

[greg conomos]

Does lucky mean you paid $250 for it, or $25000?

[Robert Sziemkiewicz]

Yes, it is a Parker. Lucky means I paid $1,300 for it. The gun's bores are mirror bright and appear to be untouched. I was told the gun has been stored for nearly 70 years. The gun is brown with patina. Looks to be an easy restoration. If my scale is correct, the gun weighs just under 14 lbs.

[Mike Franzen]

Would you like to double your money?

[Robert Sziemkiewicz]

Would anyone know how many 8 gauges were produced by Parker? Curious as to the range of values of this gun since the Blue Book doesn't list 8 ga Parkers. It is a grade 3.

[Mills Morrison]

You really did well there. I'll have to tell the dealer I am working with that the last one sold for $1300, so come down on the price. Photos please. Inquiring minds want to see.

[Bill Murphy]

How about a serial number so we can look it up for you?

[Dean Romig]

Would anyone know how many 8 gauges were produced by Parker? Curious as to the range of values of this gun since the Blue Book doesn't list 8 ga Parkers. It is a grade 3.

192 8-gauge guns in all grades were produced by Parker Bros. of which only 27 were Grade-3 and only 10 of those were Titanic Steel barreled.

The last one, ser. No. 174013 was made in 1916.

If yours cleans up nicely and if it is in otherwise nice condition it will prove to have been a very wise investment and by today's values would likely bring a figure well north of $10K..... but there are a lot of "ifs" in the equation.

[charlie cleveland]

dean i know there are close to 400 8 ga give or take a few...a d grade 8 ga in any kind of shape at 1300 is the bargain of the century..certainly looking forward to seeing and hear the boys discuss this gun..a really good find about like finding that needle in a haystack... charlie

[Mills Morrison]

I thought it was around 400 too. Can't wait to see photos

[Dean Romig]

Actually, the number of 8 guage Parkers is 286.... I guess we were both wrong.

I just counted 48 in each of the 6 columns and 46 in the 7th column in the tables in the back of Vol II of The Parker Story.

The 192 number is what I took from an Excel file I have from the Serialization book.... Guess I should have consulted the "bible" first.

[will evans]

Can't wait to read the story of how you found the gun. What a great deal. Always good to hear about guns of that nature finding their way to an appreciative home.

The thing about collecting isn't about just finding the gun you want, and then having more cash than everyone else in the room so you are able to buy everything you want regardless of value. Collecting shotguns isn't all about "The Gun". For me, it's also about finding the right gun at the right price. Those Julia's Auctions are interesting after the fact to be able to see what someone was willing to pay for certain guns with Provenance or that are extremely scarce. I also just enjoy looking at the pictures.

For me, it's the "hunt" and quest for knowledge in order to make an informed buying decision. I don't really deer hunt any more, but if I did I wouldn't be real proud of myself if I simply ponied up the $10K or whatever to go out to a place like the K*** Ranch in Texas, and then just picked the biggest genetically engineered buck out of the herd from the corner of a corn field in an air conditioned condo. I sort of view those Julia's Auctions the same way. Someone else did all of the work assembling the fine collection. That, and then there's also the fact that I don't have the cash to play in that sandbox. LOL!

[Bill Murphy]

When I try to figure out totals, I add all the totals from the Grades section. These are extrapolated totals, a bit larger than the actual serial number totals in the appendix. Totalling up from the Appendix as Dean has done, will give a different total. The advantage of using the Grades section is that you can separtate the hammer from the hammerless. The problem with using the excell file is that the Appendix total was "hand picked" from order books and stock books. The excel files were created using only the stock books. The "hand picked" order book entries for eight gauges would have been excluded.

[Bill Murphy]

Would you all please read Jawjadawg's post and hit the "Thank You" button. That's the little "thumbs up" at the lower right corner of the post. Thank you for getting to the bottom of Parker collecting, and ferretting out what's right and what's a little less. Nothing wrong with writing a big check, but dues paying in other ways is kind of nice, too.

[greg conomos]

There's nothing wrong with hunting out guns in dank little shops (and screwing old & ignorant widows out of their husbands' guns for pennies on the dollar....taking advantage of others is fast becoming the American way). But still, there is a certain clarity that comes from buying a gun at auction and knowing you competed for it fair and square.

It would be poor of a person to brag that he has more money and therefore a better collection. Similarly, it's poor of a person to brag that he has more time to visit every gun shop in a 3 state area once a month. Some people have to work for a living....

[Rich Anderson]

[QUOTE=greg conomos;126909]There's nothing wrong with hunting out guns in dank little shops (and screwing old & ignorant widows out of their husbands' guns for pennies on the dollar....taking advantage of others is fast becoming the American way).

If you can screw a widow out of the rightfull value of a gun or any other item and sleep at night than your moral compass is way off course:nono::nono::nono: Do the right thing because it's the right thing to do.

[Bill Zachow]

The correct number is right around 400 and the Appendix total is way off. A long time ago, Charlie Price and I gave presentations at the annualPGCA meeting on 8 gauges. We both, at that time, had roughly the same total number, 386. Since then, I have seen a number of Parker 8s that were not in any of the records, so I would guess the number could exceed 400. As far as purchasing an 8 gauge, grade 3, parker for $1300, the transaction would have to be less than on the "up and up". Either someone was grossly taken or the seller was transferring unowned goods.

[Milton Starr]

Id love to be able to own a parker 8 ga . all the ones ive seen though are between 10-20k .
I almost got a davenport 8 gauge but the shop owner wouldn't do a buy it now only auction . If I keep buying all these 10gauges though I could sell a few to buy one 8 gauge .
though selling 3 or 5 guns to buy one just wouldn't seem right . congrats on the purchase you lucky dog

[Robert Sziemkiewicz]

I thought I was going to be looking at a 10 gauge with 32" barrels. I assumed when I spoke to the seller over the phone he was wrong on his measurement of the barrels.The seller insisted the barrels were 36". I was a bit confused and thought the gun might be a special order. So I decided to take a couple of hours off from work the next day to take a short ride to see this gun since it piqued my interest. When I first saw the gun, I noticed the large frame immediately and the long barrels. The seller told me his gunsmith looked the gun over and that's where we got his specs including the price. Not sure who his gunsmith is but I'd never bring a gun to him for sure.
When I got the gun home I looked in my Parker Gun Identification and Serialization book to see if the serial number was listed. Yup, sure is on page 453 under serial number 156,970.
Does anyone know where to get shells from or do you have to reload?

[Richard Flanders]

You'll find vintage but sometimes not that vintage ammo at gun shows. I bought one for Destry a few years back off a table that had quite a pile.

[Milton Starr]

Ive heard gamebore will load 8 gauge ammo upon request or made to order . rocky mountain make solid brass cases or you can resize 8 gauge industrial cases. they have a extra step on the brass that has to be removed .

[will evans]

What am I missing? I think I'd feel better about shooting that half-tame deer on a pay ranch.

[Rick Losey]

i do not know what it would take to import, but they still hunt waterfowl with 8 bores in the UK.

so they must have shells or reloading components

I had posted this scrap of a recent article in the Field a while back in a discussion of Tolley 8 bores

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg195/setterw/Mobile%20Uploads/112613220137_zpsfeb61591.jpg

[Rick Losey]

The seller told me his gunsmith looked the gun over and that's where we got his specs including the price.

and can ya sue a gunsmith for malpractice :rotf:

[greg conomos]

Well, obviously (or perhaps not so obvious to some) my comment about screwing widows out of their guns is made tongue-in-cheek. It's my way of bringing to light my distaste for people who feel they are heroes for having made a 'steal' of a deal, which often comes at the expense of others.

I have no idea how the OP bought an 8 gauge for $1300 but I don't mean to imply he took advantage of anyone. Let's suppose he bought it at an auction that wasn't attended by anyone who wanted Parker shotguns - that's one example of how to buy a Parker 8 for $1300 fairly.

But more to the point, even, is my distaste for the idea that some collectors have more righteous collections than others based on how they acquired the gun. But based on the number of likes received by the post that suggests a person who paid market value for a gun has a lesser collection than someone who found a way to 'right price own' the gun.....I can see I am too charitable in my way of thinking.

[charlie cleveland]

tom armbrust use to load 8 ga shells may still do...but reloading your self is the way to go..precision reloading and ballistic reloading have all the hulls and wads and so on to load and roll crimp your shells...you can use a old lee 10 ga hand loading tools to deprime and punch the new primer in with and push the wads in with..you can make a tool out of a old set of pliars to make something to resize new indusrial hulls to fit the 8 ga shotgun..in other words about anything can be used to load up the hulls for the 8 ga once you buy them and they are not bad in price 50 cents each at the most..plenty of us fellows have reloading info to share if need be...charlie

[Eric Eis]

Would anyone know how many 8 gauges were produced by Parker? Curious as to the range of values of this gun since the Blue Book doesn't list 8 ga Parkers. It is a grade 3.

Yea think someone is fishing.....:whistle:

[will evans]

But based on the number of likes received by the post that suggests a person who paid market value for a gun has a lesser collection than someone who found a way to 'right price own' the gun.....I can see I am too charitable in my way of thinking.

I'm not seeing anyone say anything of the sort. I was certainly not trying to offend or insult anyone with my first comments. As the saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

The "widow" analogy is common, and understood by most. If you see the same gun in a gun store, placed there mis-marked by a so-called expert in his trade, then you pay the man and walk out whistling Dixie. At least, I do. I wonder if the gunsmith had also tried to buy this particular gun, but didn't have enough money to work up much of an offer. Thus the low appraisal. Or was his appraisal an honest mistake?

[Rich Anderson]

IMHO if someone is selling a gun it is their responsibility to accurately determine the value. If the seller decided the grade 3 8ga in question was worth 1300 dollars and the buyer realized it was worth more than its a fair deal. The fault is with the seller NOT the buyer.

On the other hand if the buyer was asked to determine the value of the gun for resale and he being a knowledgeable Parker, Winchester, Fox ect person and said the gun was worth $1300 knowing full well it's value was much more than that just to get a deal than he is wrong both ethically and moraley.

[will evans]

IMHO if someone is selling a gun it is their responsibility to accurately determine the value. If the seller decided the grade 3 8ga in question was worth 1300 dollars and the buyer realized it was worth more than its a fair deal. The fault is with the seller NOT the buyer.

On the other hand if the buyer was asked to determine the value of the gun for resale and he being a knowledgeable Parker, Winchester, Fox ect person and said the gun was worth $1300 knowing full well it's value was much more than that just to get a deal than he is wrong both ethically and moraley.

The seller didn't sell his gun for too little money, he just sold it LATE!

[Mark Ouellette]

Gentlemen,

Let us keep this thread about our member obtaining a highly desired Parker 8 gauge.

Let us NOT digress into someone took advantage of the poor widower gun shop owner!

No widows were put on the poor farm over this purchase! :banghead:

PS: If one gets a fantastic deal on a Parker then treat that like your salary. Keep it private or someone will get jealous... :nono:

Have a wonderful day!
Mark

[Mike Franzen]

How about those pics????

[Eldon Goddard]

I second that!

[ED J, MORGAN]

The condition of the gun may have affected the price.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Wow this threat went south fast and I can't even imagine why,

I don't own many decent guns that I didn't sneak up on in one way or another. That's because I like nice guns but don't have the money to pay high retail.

My two greatest deals on shotguns in my life were both from well known dealers who just didn't quite realize the rarity of what they were selling. I paid the men what they asked and walked away whistling the proverbial "Dixie".

Pardon me for not feeling bad about it or insisting they take them to auction so I could pay more.......

[Robert Sziemkiewicz]

I'm having computer issues with my phone downloading pics to my computer. I can down load the pics tomorrow at work and then post pics that evening when I get home.

[charlie cleveland]

looking forward to the pictures of the8 ga...charlie

[Mike Franzen]

:corn:

[Robert Sziemkiewicz]

Is anyone willing to post pics for me? I can email you the pics from my phone. Sorry to keep everyone in suspense.

[Robert Sziemkiewicz]

Could some PM Tom Armbrust's contact info? I'd like to get some shells made up for this ole girl.

[Dean Romig]

Robert, you can email the pics to me at dsromig@aol.com

[Harryreed]

Is anyone willing to post pics for me? I can email you the pics from my phone. Sorry to keep everyone in suspense.

Email them to hereed@mindspring.com and I will post.

[Robert Sziemkiewicz]

Thank you so much Harry.
This gun appears to be a grade 2 and not a grade 3.
Looking thru the Parker Serialization book, there appears to be a number of 8ga's made that year.

[Dean Romig]

Robert.... let's see the pictures. Two people have offered to post them for you.

[Harryreed]

Pictures coming in a second

[chris dawe]

:corn:

[Harryreed]

First Five

[Harryreed]

Here are the remaining photos.

[Dean Romig]

is that an 8 or a 10"

Wow... 36" tubes!!

[Bill Murphy]

A PGCA letter will clear up the difference in grade between the gun and the Serialization Book. The PGCA letter could also give information about the original purchaser as well as the grade. That looks like a good solid gun that has been used for the purpose it was made for.

[Mills Morrison]

It seems there was an 8 gauge at the 2013 Spring Southern that lettered as a D and was clearly a G. I would be curious to see the letter on this one too. Very nice gun. In good shape, but not so good that it can't be hunted and shot.

[Harryreed]

Last 2 photos. Sorry for them being posted in three different posts. Next time I will combine them in one post. They were scattered out in my inbox and I did not see all of them at first glance.

Harry

[Mills Morrison]

Is that an LC Smith 8?

[bruce a lyons]

WOW. The Smith looks like an 8 as well. Great find. Cogradulations. A Packard and a Caddy in the same barn!

[Rich Anderson]

I think you made a very good buy on the Parker, congratulations.

[charlie cleveland]

i envey you with all those nice 8 ga s...only ever seen 1 lc smith 8 ga for sale and i seen an auction site were a fair lefever 8 ga had sold for 1500 i was about 3 months late on the auction was about ten years ago... thanks for showing us these old 8 s .... charlie

[Larry Mason]

Congratulations!

[CraigThompson]

WOW. The Smith looks like an 8 as well. Great find. Cogradulations. A Packard and a Caddy in the same barn!


Cadillacs do not deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence with Packards :rotf:

[Harryreed]

Rob sent me the following via his phone so I will post:

"The LC Smith is in the pic for comparison. It's a 10 ga."

I assume he is unable to post on the Forum from his phone.:banghead:

[Eldon Goddard]

I now believe in miracles.

[Eldon Goddard]

Did we ever discover the frame size?

[Mills Morrison]

That LC Smith is a find too, even in 10 gauge.

[charlie cleveland]

yes a lc smith 10 ga is a heart breaker too...i know i ve got one too....but would trade it for a lc smith 8 ga in a heart beat even a real beat up one....hope the lc 10 dont read this...charlie

[Robert Sziemkiewicz]

Sending out for a letter tomorrow. I'll post the letter once I receive it.

[Mills Morrison]

That is a mighty nice gun you have. Can't wait to see the history behind it

[Mark Ouellette]

Gentlemen,

Let us keep this thread about our member obtaining a highly desired Parker 8 gauge.

Let us NOT digress into someone took advantage of the poor widower gun shop owner!

No widows were put on the poor farm over this purchase! :banghead:

PS: If one gets a fantastic deal on a Parker then treat that like your salary. Keep it private or someone will get jealous... :nono:

Have a wonderful day!
Mark

Gentlemen,

As I stated on page 5 of this thread, we are done discussing if anyone got ripped off concerning this 8 gauge.

Because of this I had to delete a couple posts today. Sorry guys but that stuff causes an otherwise good thread to go downhill in a hurry!

If you want to discuss ethics you are welcome to start a new thread in the Members Only Off Topic sub-forum.

Mark

[Bill Murphy]

Forget that business about cheating widows as Mark suggests. I bought my first eight gauge Parker from a Griffin and Howe employee, an experienced trader in antique guns, for $470.00 after it sat on his gun show table for three days. At the same show at another time, I bought a Lindner 16 gauge hammer gun, the only one I have ever seen or heard of, for $700.00, from an experienced dealer in antique guns. If you don't buy it, someone else will, and they will flip it and you will add it to your collection. I would rather see such guns added to collections rather than being "flipped".

[Bill Zachow]

Bill, you need to put your prices in perspective. By that I mean, when did you make those excellent purchases? If the items were purchased in the last 15 years, you did wonderful. If 20 to 30 years ago, average. My pre 64 Winchester model 70s in 22 hornet, 375 H&H, and 243 heavy target all cost way less than $1000 each...35 years ago.

[Bill Murphy]

Bill, bought the Parker eight 15 years ago, the Lindner 16 a few years later. The eight did not have a forend. Ron Kirby provided me with a nice #7 frame forend.

[Bill Zachow]

Thanks, Bill. Extremely good buys. In spite of our economy, the prices of collectable firearms has greatly exceeded the inflation rate ver the past 30 years. Every gun I have sold has almost tripled in price since I sold them, and I wish I had kept every one.

[Rich Anderson]

Bill we have the same taste in Pre 64 M70's although I don't have a varmint 243 I do have a nice std grade 243 and a couple of others.:)

[Mills Morrison]

I am looking at the photos of this gun again and it appears to have almost identical engraving to my 8 gauge. I bet it was the same engraver. What year was this one made? Mine was made in 1913

[David Noble]

Mills, 156,970 is a 1911 vintage. Definitely close enough to be the same engraver.