Highly Endorsed

[Dean Romig]

I am doing a research project involving all of the back issues of Parker Pages, right back to the very first issue Jan/Feb 1994 and I am amazed at the scope and breadth of knowledge of all things Parker published in those early issues. The authors of those articles were some of the original 50 founding members of the PGCA and at the time, were the "last word" in Parker knowledge and experience.

Questions that are asked every day on this PGCA Forum are all answered in those early issues. I am truly in awe of the knowledge imparted in those informative technical articles and I urge everybody to get hold of some of those early Parker Pages. When you're done with them, don't get rid of them but pass them along to other members who might want to read them. I know they're scarce and maybe Jim Hall will come on and let us know what's available and how to get them.

[Harryreed]

Maybe we could create a .pdf library of them in the Member Only area of this Forum. They would be available to members to review at our leasure. Another benefit of membership. They would have to be protected from copying or downloading.

[Dean Romig]

We would need to employ a copyright attorney for any copyright infringement hurdles that may arise. We've had that intent and were immediately threatened with litigation by one author.

[Bill Murphy]

Now that the rest of us have outlived "that author", is it a simpler project?

[Robin Lewis]

If we could insure that every person that submitted an article or photo to Parker Pages grants rights to reproduce it, then I suppose they could be made available.

Sadly, the work has been done but it can't be released without a risk of being sued. I have read the news about how some individuals have had huge judgements against them for illegally downloading a song; scares me.

[Harryreed]

I made the assumption that the PGCA owned the contents of the quarterly magazine "Parker Pages" and this forum. From previous post that must not be the case.

I still think if we limited the availability to members only and the content is protected against download via web security, I am still unclear where the copyright violation occurs.

[Robin Lewis]

"that author", and others, submitted material with a limited copyright attached (once use). I don't think Parker Pages accepts those limited copyrights anymore (may be wrong?) but that doesn't resolve the problem of the past issues.

[Harryreed]

:banghead::banghead:Thanks, I see the problem.

[Bill Murphy]

Then we are to assume we can be sued if we accept compensation, say $2.50, for a back issue with his article in it?

[Harryreed]

Instead of the individual articles being placed in a library. If the original Parker Pages are scanned in, in original format with advertisements and all, and referenced as issue number etc... as they were originaly published, then placed in the members only area would we now NOT violate the single use copyright? Since it would be an electronic archive of the original publication? Just another thought.

[Robin Lewis]

Bill - I believe back issues are extra copies of the original Parker Pages? Just as you passing your copies on to me would be OK, providing back issues is OK too; right?

Harry - That is exactly what was being done when a challenge on copyright was made. The project stopped as a result.

[Dean Romig]

I, for one, believed and still do believe the project to be very worthwhile. I would love to see the PGCA get through and beyond the 'copyright infringement' threat and see the project come to fruition. It is 'on the shelf' for now and will stay there until the PGCA can be legally advised that the coast is clear to proceed. At this point I couldn't even hazard a guess when that might be.

[Bill Murphy]

Look at the L.C. Smith site and see what they have done. Not as full of information as Dan Cote's index, but a whale of a lot better than we are doing. It is an index of article titles and authors by issue. That is all we are asking for and EDM shouldn't object. As I reminded Dean very recently, I offered to create a Double Gun Journal type of index for the Parker Pages, but the BOD declined my offer. An "Index of Articles by Title and Author" should be very doable and take someone about a half day to complete, probably a year less than what I offered to do, but useful nevertheless. Dan Cote prints such an index in every issue of DGJ now, and we should check it out.

[Robin Lewis]

Bill, the Parker Pages index has been available on this site for a over a year. Click on the "Parker Pages" link (4th one from the top) off the main page at www.parkerguns.org and find the link to past Parker Pages Index. I quit maintaining that stuff because nobody seemed to have an interest in it.

[Dean Romig]

Bill, once I have finished my research project a complete listing can be printed but only of the PP Volume, the Title, the Author, the Issue - available by USPS initially as it is thirty-three pages long.

But the original project was far, far more in-depth than just that.

[Bill Murphy]

Thanks, Dean. I apologize for missing the article/author index on the home page. What I volunteered to create was much more involved. I had a bit of trouble at first, clicking on the covers. I now know that I have to click on the blue headings to get what we want. I don't know how you know that there is "no interest", but there is interest and would like to see the article/author index continued.

[Dean Romig]

Any and all accolades for the index and for a great deal of the information available through the links on the PGCA Home page should go to Robin Lewis... as well, his hard work on the "shelved" original project.

[Mills Morrison]

I ordered about half of the PP back issues (just contact Jim Hall) about a year ago and still enjoy reading them. I'd be willing to assist if some compilation of the old articles were possible. There are some great articles and a compilation or two of them would make a great book or books. Maybe one book on Parker hunting stories and one for technical articles. Seems if the authors gave permission, copyright issues would not be a problem

[Dean Romig]

Thanks Mills. The project has been completed but, as I stated previously, is "on the shelf" for the time being.

[Mills Morrison]

I wonder if the Double Gun Journal has any plans for something similar?

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Gents, From 1994 till he left for whatever reason Mr Ron Kirby was the man, He put all the stories together, people would send him info and photos to use. He and his wife would work at night after teaching school to put these early issues together, using grey paper they would staple the pages together and mail the copies to the membership, Six times a year! No they were not as fancy as todays Parker Pages but had a wealth of information on the Parker gun, that as is today the membership could not wait to get. All this with no cost to the PGCA but paper etc, Today I believe it cost about 28,000 to do the Parker Pages, My hat is off to Mr Kirby and his wife for the work done early on. It was truly a labor of love. Pardon me for digging up bones, Gary

[Dean Romig]

You're absolutely right Gary - no bones about it - Hats off to Ron Kirby!

[Bill Murphy]

Mills, the Double Gun Journal has two hard cover indexes, each covering seven years. You can reference article titles, authors, subjects, and individual word mention in an alphabetical sequence or articles by issue in issue sequence. If you want to find A.W. Dubray, Dave Noreen articles, a certain article by title, any subject or name, you name it. It's all there in a simple format. If you purchase one or both of the DGJ indexes, you will see exactly the project I volunteered to take on for the Parker Pages. All those who own the first fourteen years of DGJ should have these volumes. It isn't an easy project if you let too many years go by, as Dan Cote has found out. It has been ten years since the last index was published and no one knows whether the third index is in the hopper or not.

[Mills Morrison]

Those two indexes are on my wishlist, as soon as some other things are moved out of the way.

[Robin Lewis]

Bill, the Parker Pages project that was killed was along those lines. It was to be a DVD containing all the Parker Pages in PDF format, as printed, with an index containing title and author to each issue, organized by year and volume. Everything was searchable by keyword, much like google searches, except it wasn't presented in any particular order. It would allow a search of all Parker Pages to find a given keyword. Once a Parker Pages issue was selected to read, it too was searchable because they were saved in searchable PDF format and Adobe reader provides the search function.

It was almost done when the off hand copyright challenge was made. This scared me about legal action and me being destroyed financially if it went public. I have continued to keep the work going for my own personal use. It is frustrating that it can't be shown to others. It could have been a good financial win for the PGCA. But, without a release from everyone that submitted an article or photo for publication I'm not releasing my work to anyone; that isn't likely to happen. :banghead:

The Parker Pages index found on the Parker Pages link on this site is the index I intended to use on the DVD. That is why when you click on the image of the issue it fails to work; something you complained about. It would have made that issue available to read, if we could allow that. Clicking on "Table of Contents" does work and will provide the index for that particular year. When it comes up, you could click on the issue number on the far right and the issue would come up for you to read; again if we could make it available, which we can't.

Anyway, now you know.

[Bruce Day]

.......It was almost done when the off hand copyright challenge was made......


And that's all it was, off hand, made in the evening after........ because his game was to get people wound up. He later said he was "just joking", and now he has passed away.

If people seriously want to re-visit the issue , it can be done, assuming that there is a serious need for the project and a serious intent to proceed.

[Robin Lewis]

When I talked to Austin about copyright, he told me that Ed wasn't the only one to send items with copyright attached. Unfortunately, he didn't keep records of who sent them. Joking or not, without clear copyright, my life as I know it could change dramatically at his or another contributor's whim.

[Bill Murphy]

I edited this post because it didn't make sense after I learned how to operate the "Index" on the home page.

[Robin Lewis]

Bill, once I have finished my research project a complete listing can be printed but only of the PP Volume, the Title, the Author, the Issue - available by USPS initially as it is thirty-three pages long.

Bill, Dean said one is in the works? I never said copyright stopped an index, in fact one already exists on the Parker Pages web page. I don't understand what you are looking for, but as you are a PGCA member, I am sure your efforts producing what you envision would be welcomed by us all. You have all the Parker Pages available, make it yourself and give it to the PGCA.

[Mills Morrison]

What would be cool is an index and a collection of some of the "best of" articles from Parker Pages. I bet we could get permission from enough authors to do quite a good book. I am willing to volunteer to help and it sounds like there are a few others on this thread who would volunteer as well.

[Dean Romig]

Not one issue of Parker Pages had a complete table of contents until Volume 10, Issue 6. That's sixty issues without a table of contents.
Some of them had "In This Issue" listings of articles but was by no means a complete listing of all the articles in the issue - they were simply a few highlighted articles.

[Dean Romig]

What would be cool is an index and a collection of some of the "best of" articles from Parker Pages. I bet we could get permission from enough authors to do quite a good book. I am willing to volunteer to help and it sounds like there are a few others on this thread who would volunteer as well.


That would be a pretty pricey undertaking if you're suggesting publishing such an index in book form like Daniel Cote does.

[Rick Losey]

How about a CD - or the self publish sites like LuLu

[Dean Romig]

You'd still need to get clearance from the authors in order to protect yourself from litigation.

[Rick Losey]

You'd still need to get clearance from the authors in order to protect yourself from litigation.

understood - but cost to publish the index may be mitigated

and - maybe- this permission could be requested as the articles are selected for issues from now on

[Mills Morrison]

The thing to do is pre-sell a limited edition to get seed money for printing costs. How were such books like the Parker Story published? Who here has experience with publishing?

I don't own a Kindle and don't really like paperbacks. Give me leather or cloth bound.

[Bill Murphy]

Dean and Robin, I finally found out why I can't get an index on the home page. I was clicking on the little pictures of the individual issues, which wasn't working. I found that you have to click on the blue headings, and that worked just fine. Thanks to both of you. For those of us who wisely kept our PP issues, this is all we need and is a great service. Thanks again.

[Dean Romig]

All the thanks go to Robin for his hundreds of hours of work on all of this.

[todd allen]

I am proud to have had three submissions posted in 2000, if I recall correctly.
I can't imagine someone being so full of themselves to object to reprinting something that should have been considered a gift, in the first place.

[Dean Romig]

Thank you for your contributions Todd.

In the real world they are fortunately few and far between but they do exist.

[John Dallas]

Here's what happens when you have a friend who is a skilled commercial artist, knows Photoshop, and isn't too worried about Copyrights.