What should I do with my Parker

[Galen Hays]

I have recently acquired a model V, made in 1901. It is 12 ga. 30 in. barrels, hammerless, and in original condition. Does not appear to have ever had anything done to it. Gun is very tight, bores look good, no pitting, but there is some surface rust on the trigger guard and the exterior of the barrels. Main problem is that the triggers are "locked up". They will not move.

What can I do myself to loosen the action up, or should I leave well enough alone and send it to a gunsmith that is familiar with Parkers?

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Galen Hays

[Harry Collins]

Galen,

Make sure the gun is unloaded and with the barrles closed to the receiver, push the safety forward and try the triggers. It is OK to drop hammers in this fashon with a Parker because there is no floating firing pin.

I hope this is all there is to your problem, Harry

[Harry Collins]

Do you think the stock was removed and when replaced the safety was not correctly connected. This could cause a "lock up". The light surface rust can be removed with a good coating of Hoppe's #9 and some light work with 0000 steel wool.
Harry

[Galen Hays]

Harry, I mis-stated my problem. The triggers will move, but don't drop the hammers. I wonder if something is keeping the gun from cocking when opened. Galen Hays

[Francis Morin]

[QUOTE=Galen Hays;11193]Harry, I mis-stated my problem. The triggers will move, but don't drop the hammers. I wonder if something is keeping the gun from cocking when opened. Galen Hays- Harry's advice is right on the money- I would also suggest you remove the forearm and you will see the cocking slide pin that protrudes from the front of the frame knuckle- that should move inward with little resistance when you push it with a dowell or pencil- and spring back to original position when released--

I would also move the top lever over and observe if the safety slide moves rearward ( to expose the SAFE scripted on the top tang) and then remove the barrels, and with the top lever still over, with the tip of a small screwdriver of a key- depress the latch trip found at the rear bottom of the receiver (the locking bolt will be drawn back, and you can see the trip- if you depress it you'll feel slight spring pressure and the top lever should move freely back to aprox. center of the top tang--

If you care to tell us where you are located, the membership can recommend qualified Parker gunsmiths- taking a Parker apart is not impossible, but of you are uncertain or lack the right tools (fitted screw drivers, drift and pin punches, plastic non-marring small hammer- and the most important tool of all, IMO- PATIENCE--) you would be well advised to have a good 'smith do this and find the problem--

Welcome to the PGCA galen- my comment about "force" goes back to a metal fabricating shop where i worked for many years- the old advice was: "Never use force, just get a bigger hammer from the tool crib"--:duck:

[Galen Hays]

Thanks, Francis,
The cocking slide pin works properly. Also the safety slide also moves as it is supposed to do. I depressed the latch trip, as you suggested, and the lever came to center.

I live in north Texas, about 90 miles east of Dallas. I would welcome the name of a good gunsmith, familiar with Parkers and would drive quite some distance to reach one.

I am very impressed with the helpful hints which I have received. By the way, Harry asked if the stock had been removed. I am reasonable sure it has not been touched.

Thanks again, Galen Hays

[Francis Morin]

I'm a "parts changer" not a FFL gunsmith- I clean and strip down my own firearms and replace if needed minor parts- I do NOT know the cause of the problem with your Parker- so that's my 2 cents worth--

There are many fine gunsmiths in the Western States- Jess Briley's in Houston comes to mind, also Chaddick's in Terrell could recommend one or more as well. Mr. Chaddick has specialized in Parkers for many years.

Let us know the outcome once you have your fine Parker repaired and ready for many more years afield- great guns indeed.

[Jack Cronkhite]

I'm like Francis. I will tear down my own stuff and have now played with three rough Parkers, with no end of assistance from the gentlemen on this forum. Galen, you say the hammers won't drop but the triggers will move. Does the rear trigger (left barrel) move far enough to be flush along its full length with the trigger plate? If it does, the hammer should be released. If the hammer is not released, there may be a broken sear spring or broken sear or an issue with the cocking mechanism. (I chose rear trigger because it is much easier to verify extent of movement, i.e., flush to plate than it is with the right trigger) If the trigger only moves a bit but not flush to the plate, then something is interfering with sear release, hammer travel, mainspring travel, mainspring piston cup travel. If the gun has never been opened up, there may be a good likelihood of internal rust seizing the mainspring piston cup, thereby not allowing the mainspring to release its tension. Even when barrels and external metal have been maintained, after a century of time, the internal action components can get into rough operating condition if the action has never seen any servicing, especially if it sits in disuse for decades.

Since you have a nice gun and if you feel hesitant to play, take it to a recommended Parker gunsmith and then enjoy it for years to come. The Parker is a fun shotgun to shoot, especially in the field.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/P1060891sgw.jpg

[Francis Morin]

[QUOTE=Jack Cronkhite;11219]I'm like Francis. I will tear down my own stuff and have now played with three rough Parkers, with no end of assistance from the gentlemen on this forum. Galen, you say the hammers won't drop but the triggers will move. Does the rear trigger (left barrel) move far enough to be flush along its full length with the trigger plate? If it does, the hammer should be released. If the hammer is not released, there may be a broken sear spring or broken sear or an issue with the cocking mechanism. (I chose rear trigger because it is much easier to verify extent of movement, i.e., flush to plate than it is with the right trigger) If the trigger only moves a bit but not flush to the plate, then something is interfering with sear release, hammer travel, mainspring travel, mainspring piston cup travel. If the gun has never been opened up, there may be a good likelihood of internal rust seizing the mainspring piston cup, thereby not allowing the mainspring to release its tension. Even when barrels and external metal have been maintained, after a century of time, the internal action components can get into rough operating condition if the action has never seen any servicing, especially if it sits in disuse for decades.

Since you have a nice gun and if you feel hesitant to play, take it to a recommended Parker gunsmith and then enjoy it for years to come. The Parker is a fun shotgun to shoot, especially in the field.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/P1060891sgw.jpg[-- Very imformative Jack-especially the suggestion about using the rear trigger for the "verification"- Two questions then come to mind: (1) If your Parker gun has a single trigger, does it make any difference which barrel is selected? I would guess not, but no harm in asking. (2) You mentioned the mainspring piston cup- Is that the later 1917 era James Hayes revised design style of mainspring? Both the project GHE12 (1904) and the PH 14 (1906) are the older King design that uses the flat leaf mainspring--

You are 200% right about the oil, grease and "crud" factor- The PH released both sears and the hammers fell freely as I started the disassembly process that PGCA Robin has detailed so well for us in the Technical area of our website- instead of leaving the barrels on to do this, as I already knew the mainspring was broken when I bought it, I used a block of soft pine across the face of the receiver- also verifying the firing pins--

The floorplate screws came out easily, and the dowell tap removed the plate- but Mama Mia- black grease and crud prevailed- soak and scrub with toothbrushes and pipe cleaners and Q-tips (ad elbow grease) did the job- I use a 50-50 mix of acetone and Kroil- BUT Never on a assembled gun or forearm iron w/o th wood removed first--:duck:

[Dave Suponski]

Francis,In the interest of correct information.All Parker hammerless guns have coil spring mainsprings.The leaf spring was only used on the top lever until the change took place to the coil spring for the top lever.

Leaf spring main springs were used on Parker hammerguns untill the end of hammergun production.

[Francis Morin]

[QUOTE=Dave Suponski;11228]Francis,In the interest of correct information.All Parker hammerless guns have coil spring mainsprings.The leaf spring was only used on the top lever until the change took place to the coil spring for the top lever.

Leaf spring main springs were used on Parker hammerguns untill the end of hammergun production.[-- Dave, was I correct in stating the earlier Parkers, like my two, were the 18 piece King design action, the later post 1917 (aprox) were the Hayes revision?-- I read that years ago in the Peter Johnson Parker book, written aprox. 1960 era- and have come to learn that since then, way more accurate information about our beloved Parkers has come to light--

It sure will be easier to replace the Parker top lever leaf spring than doing same in the main spring in a Smith- I wonder if they staked the locator pin at the rear apex, or if not, how they secured it--So much to learn-- Thanks again:rolleyes:

[Dave Suponski]

Francis,Yes your guns would be the King design.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Good morning. Coffee brewing, no hint of sunrise yet.

I have no experience with single selective triggers. I find it interesting that Galen says that both hammers won't drop, so whatever is going on it is affecting boh sides equally, which makes me think a complete tear down, thorough cleaning and reassembly might be all that is needed. Seems unlikely to have a double set of broken parts but rust/crud seized parts on both sides is not hard to imagine.

Dave answered the second question.

In the interest of correct terminology, what I refered to as "piston cup" is properly known as the "mainspring plunger" (part 5 on the technical info tab).

Coffee's ready. :)

Jack

[Francis Morin]

[QUOTE=Jack Cronkhite;11233]Good morning. Coffee brewing, no hint of sunrise yet.

I have no experience with single selective triggers. I find it interesting that Galen says that both hammers won't drop, so whatever is going on it is affecting boh sides equally, which makes me think a complete tear down, thorough cleaning and reassembly might be all that is needed. Seems unlikely to have a double set of broken parts but rust/crud seized parts on both sides is not hard to imagine.

Dave answered the second question.

In the interest of correct terminology, what I refered to as "piston cup" is properly known as the "mainspring plunger" (part 5 on the technical info tab).

Coffee's ready. :)

Some of the brew we had in the mess halls back when- you could use the left-over amount in those big vats at the Base Armory and it would strip cosmoline off a M-1 Garand in a heartbeat-- I'll bring the Bailey's Irish Creme if you are pourin'--:bigbye:

[Russ Jackson]

Hello Galen; First let me say ,the majority of these guys are far more savvy than I ,about working on their Parkers ,I have a good friend that lives near by and I recruit him when I have a problem ! With that said , I had the same problem with a GH grade 20 Ga. on the outside everything appeared normal and when you opened the gun to cock it ,it sounded as if the gun cocked ,but the trigger wouldn't drop the hammer ,ended up when we opened up the gun the sear spring was broken on the left side and the hammer wasn't cocking ,that would be part # 7 on our Tech Info page ,as Jack said odd that both sides don't function ,but as full of gunk and rust ,and as long as my gun had sat without being opened and cocked ,it is a miracle both of my springs weren't broken the first time I tried to cock the gun ! This would be considered an easy fix by most ,but let me say ,if you have never seen a Parker taken down before at least a few times ,you will do well to have an experienced smith at hand !Also if this is the problem ,I had to have a gentleman make the sear springs for me as they are nearly impossible to find ! Good luck with your gun !

[Jack Cronkhite]

Francis: Now that's a good deal. I would always pour coffee for someone bringing the Bailey's. This pot is gone but another is easily brewed.
Sun did rise. Love that time when the light begins to glow and the pinks and blues start showing. The whir and whistle of wings overhead. Anticipation........ oops, slipped into another world for a moment.
The "itis" is getting bad again. Found a Trojan on the net that is calling me. I'm sure I can quit anytime, but why bother.

Cheers,
Jack

[Dave Suponski]

Jack,I like the way you think.....:)

[Francis Morin]

I had two older series Trojan 12's- std DT-and the small doll's head- a tad more drop than I like, but I worked around=- both dropped a lot of Roosters and a few mallards for me (before steel shot laws)-- I just looked seriously at a 16 Trojan this week- 28" barrels size 1 frame (std. I believe) and serial no. aprox 1929 mfg. it did NOT have the small doll's head rib extension, it was the later flat breech faced version (like on the M21)--

I'm really not a 16 man-love the 12's, but with the later stock dims-I could just see a few bobwhite quail dropped to a well placed shot over a fine Pointer or Setter- I ended up with the PH 16- 26" Twist barrels- I bought it (for quite abit less than the Trojan was listed for) as the top lever spring was broken- and the shop selling it on consignment had listed it as a Parker Trojan 16 with Unsafe to Shoot barrels- my good luck, as I have learned so much about those barrels and Parkers from this PGCA website-

The clincher, besides the unmarred screws and DHBP was the beautiful flame grained walnit and the unmarred or uncut stock- it is also on the O frame- and I may have access to a set of 28" 20 Vulcan extractor barrels on the O frame- that's a "down the road" option- always great to have a Winter bench project or two- isn't it?? Best--:rolleyes:

[Galen Hays]

Thanks, guys. The rear trigger base does come up flush with the plate. After reading your comments, I will find a competent gunsmith to look into it. I do know that the gun had not been used in 40-50 years, so the action may very well be full of gook - hopefully not rust.

I really appreciate all the helpful comments that have been posted on this thread.
Galen Hays

[Jack Cronkhite]

Galen: Let us know the outcome. As always, we enjoy seeing pictures.
Francis: What I know so far is it is 12 gauge 2 3/4", with 28" barrels and a case. It has been refinished with a new stock. Most important, it fits my fun money budget. It will be a huntin' gun as are all my guns. I like to be the guy who adds handling marks so later others can wonder about the hunts the old gun they just found has been on. If only they could talk....

Cheers, Jack

[Greg Miller]

I might be tempted to detach the barrels, and with the butt facing upwards, spray some gun cleaner into the action. Will do no harm, and if it then works, you know it is just gunky. Might still want to have someone competent take it down and clean, but for diagnostic purposes, will do no harm. I have seen old oils harden up like varnish.

[Galen Hays]

Thanks, Greg. Worth a try. I'll hit it with some GunScrubber. Galen Hays

[Jack Cronkhite]

Greg: Good ol' GunScrubber. Good diagnostic step.

Galen: If that makes things work, then have it stripped down and fully cleaned and re-lubed and it will be shooting for another lifetime. Cheers,
Jack