View Full Version : Fox Sterlingworth
Eldon Goddard
12-21-2013, 08:33 PM
I looked at a fox sterlingworth in a local gun shop. It was is nice condition very little cc left. No stock cracks or rust. The barrels were suspiciously shiny. The lock up was very impressive. Asking $1000. I think a little over priced I am thinking more like $700-$800. What do you think a decent sterlingworth should go for.
Eldon Goddard
12-21-2013, 08:35 PM
I should mention 12 gauge with 30'' uncut barrels. I did not check if it was a Philadelphia sterlingworth or not.
Rick Losey
12-21-2013, 08:39 PM
to most the Utica Vs Philly makes a difference, and early Philly is even better in most cases quality wise
Eldon Goddard
12-21-2013, 08:41 PM
The Philly guns should be marked on the barrel correct. I could call them on Monday and find out.
Rick Losey
12-21-2013, 09:51 PM
Either location is marked on the barrels. And of course the serial number will give you the year it was made
Greg Baehman
12-21-2013, 10:07 PM
If you can recall . . . a Philly-built gun it will be roll stamped STERLINGWORTH on both sides of the action. If it's Utica-built it will be stamped FOX STERLINGWORTH.
William Davis
12-21-2013, 10:07 PM
I paid 900 for a Philadelphia Sterlingworth Pin gun few months ago. Might have been high but it's a nice one. Untouched.
Bill
CraigThompson
12-21-2013, 10:45 PM
I got a Philly 12 gauge 26" IC/M in the summer for $350 only thing wrong with it was an incorrect buttplate !
About 6 weeks ago I got a very nice Philly 20 gauge 26" IC/M for $1100 .
About a year ago I got another Philly 20 gauge 28" M&F for $1100 and this one had provenance to 30"s actor Robert Montgomery father of Elizabeth Montgomery .
Sterlingworths can be had for decent prices if one keeps their proverbial eyes open and has some luck !
I have a circa 1930 Utica AH Fox A Grade 16 gauge but no Sterlingworth 16 . Kinda hoping to run across a decent Philly 16 gauge Sterlingworth with 26" IC/M barrels .
Jerry Harlow
12-21-2013, 10:52 PM
Eldon,
There is nothing wrong with the later Savage Fox Sterlingworths but in my opinion from a beauty standpoint the Philly guns and the very early Utica guns still using the old stock of parts are the most beautiful I think. I like the slim splinter forend as compared to the bulkier one, the slimmer opening lever as opposed to the tall one, the early type safety instead of the big later one, and the grip cap not found on the later guns. So I think the later Savage ones are worth some, maybe considerably less. Just my 2 cents. So you've got to determine at what you are looking.
William Davis
12-22-2013, 07:48 AM
Never paid much attention to Foxes but this pre WW 1 Pin Fox caught my eye. Need or not had to buy it.
In a local shop yesterday 4 or 5 Fox Sterlingworths 500 to 1200 depending on condition. None caught my eye. Seems older the more attractive.
Bill
Daryl Corona
12-22-2013, 08:34 AM
I looked at a fox sterlingworth in a local gun shop. It was is nice condition very little cc left. No stock cracks or rust. The barrels were suspiciously shiny. The lock up was very impressive. Asking $1000. I think a little over priced I am thinking more like $700-$800. What do you think a decent sterlingworth should go for.
Eldon;
Even if you pay $1000 bucks for the Sterly the old adage stands. You never pay too much you only pay too early. Try to find a SxS with that quality made today. The Sterlingworths are a great gun.
Jack Selman
12-22-2013, 09:44 AM
Ivory Beads sold me a 26" 20 gauge Philly several years ago. It is truly an entry-level Cadillac that fits like a glove and performs as well as my small bore Parkers. And they do not cost out the nose to weigh less!!
Rick Losey
12-22-2013, 10:18 AM
I was a Fox guy before i bought my first Parker, Sterlingworths are great guns, still have a couple.
But the question was is a grand too much for a 12 gauge we don't have enough info on.
unless it is a very good early Philly gun, I would offer less.
Bill Murphy
12-22-2013, 10:59 AM
Very little case colors, barrels suspiciously shiny means $1000 is way up on the high side. $1000 should buy a high condition Sterlingworth with a good percentage of visible colors. They are hard to find but worth looking for. $600 to $700 should buy a really nice Sterly with original butt and no problems of originality.
Eldon Goddard
12-23-2013, 02:37 PM
It is a Philadelphia sterlingworth. Still think 1000 is a little high for the condition.
Eric Eis
12-23-2013, 02:40 PM
It is a Philadelphia sterlingworth. Still think 1000 is a little high for the condition.
Then go with your "gut" on this one...
Eldon Goddard
12-23-2013, 03:27 PM
Good Advice. My gut already told me quit spending so much money on guns.
Dave Noreen
12-23-2013, 04:46 PM
My gut already told me quit spending so much money on guns.
Oh Eldon!!! Say it isn't so!!
Eldon Goddard
12-23-2013, 05:55 PM
Don't worry Mr. Noreen it will only be tell the next paycheck.
Brian Dudley
01-01-2014, 08:14 AM
Eldon,
You can get many Sterlingworths in sound and similar condition to what you describe for the 700 to 800 price mark you are thinking.
Lockup on Sterlingworths is usually always good and tight due to the rotary mechanism.
Case colors, or at least a good amount of them great more rare on them because the factory colors wore off easily.
Steve McCarty
01-25-2014, 09:57 PM
There are no fleas on a Fox Sterlingworth and I like mine a lot. Very nice shooting guns. a G is okay, but on the highish side. I paid that for mine 20 years ago tho, but it was redone and in fine condition with the case.
You will never have a better shooting gun, and as we all know, if we pay too much we still get the gun and after a while we don't care if we paid too much.
Eldon Goddard
01-26-2014, 01:11 AM
I should call them and see if it is still available. Going on Monday to look at a hammer drilling 16gax16gax30-30. Can not wait to see it in person.
wayne goerres
01-26-2014, 03:15 PM
I hadn't heard of a drilling in that configuration. Who is the maker. It sounds fairly interesting. I would like to have a drilling but It would have to be one of the larger rifle bores may be 40cal with 12ga above.
Eldon Goddard
01-26-2014, 03:26 PM
The german gun collectors told me that this was a combination made specifically for import into the U.S. The owner says there is no markings on the gun. I find this hard to believe. I am going to look it over real well and if he lets me take some good pictures. I have a guess the gun was made by maker named W. Weisgerber but I have no proof yet.
wayne goerres
01-26-2014, 08:08 PM
If the gun has no markings than it is a guild gun. That's not a bad thing. I own one and it is a very nice gun. You should be able to figure out witch country it is made in from the proof marks. Some times the maker can be identified by the style. I hav'nt found anybody who can tell me who built mine. It is 16ga over 9.3 x 72.
Eldon Goddard
01-28-2014, 12:21 AM
Looked at the gun. The proof marks show that it clearly german. The shotgun barrels were pitted and the barrel is marked 9mm but it is suppose to be a 30-30. Kind of confusing. Here are some pics if you guys have any ideas.
Eldon Goddard
01-28-2014, 12:25 AM
The gun had some writing around the barrel all I could make out on the left barrel was XXXXXaer and on the right Stahl. The barrel also had sch son written on it, no idea what that means.
wayne goerres
01-28-2014, 10:44 AM
Eldon you should have a chamber cast done before you but if you hav'nt already bought it.9 mm and 30ca. don't add up.
charlie cleveland
01-28-2014, 07:36 PM
that stahl means steel.. the 9 mm could be9x72r a very fine and really old shell its a little stouter than a 30-30..shells can still be found...or the 9 mm could be a 9x74 r now this is areal big game shell.i would live to have a gun in this calibre...i would almost bet though its the 9x 72 ractually they list as a 9.3x72r...i had a 16x16 x9.3x72r once upon a time...charlie
Eldon Goddard
01-28-2014, 09:32 PM
I have decided to pass on it. I am trying to get information for the owner however as he was a nice guy. All I know is something does not add up. They have shot 30-30 in it but you would think it would be stamped 7.62.
Brian Dudley
01-28-2014, 09:56 PM
I am in the process of acquiring a Three Barrel Gun company Drilling in. 16 x 16 over 30/30. A rare configuration for an American made Drilling.
A very early gun made in NY, before they moved to WV.
And a very high grade too.
wayne goerres
01-29-2014, 06:52 AM
If they shot 30-30 in it they must have had it resleved and rechambered. 30-30 is .308,and 9mm is .355 and finally 9.3 was listed in two sizes .365 and .376 depending on the chambering.
Dave Noreen
01-29-2014, 11:57 AM
I am in the process of acquiring a Three Barrel Gun company Drilling in. 16 x 16 over 30/30. A rare configuration for an American made Drilling.
A very early gun made in NY, before they moved to WV.
Something doesn't add up there. While Frank A. Hollenbeck was from New York State, he was down in Baltimore working with Baltimore Arms Co. around the turn of the century, and then went up to West Virginia and founded the Hollenbeck Gun Co. in 1901 to make his double and three-barrel guns. After Frank went bust in 1904, local businessmen took over and the business reemerged as the Three-Barrel Gun Co. in 1905, and pretty soon, Uncle Dan's son Frank Lefever became plant superintendant. Frank A. Hollenbeck returned to New York, and perhaps he took some parts with him?!? While it appears the majority of the three-barrel guns made in West Virginia were 12 x 12 x .32-40, they were also made in 16-, 20- and 28-gauges, and a great number of rifle calibers -- .22 WCF, .25-20 Win., .25-20SS, .25-25 Stevens, .25-35 Win., .25-36 Marlin, .30 WCF (.30-30), .32 Ideal, .32-20 and .32-40. Thumbing through my copy of the old Three-Barrel and Royal Gun Co. ledger, I'd estimate that after serial number 550, .30-30 was the second most common rifle caliber.
wayne goerres
01-29-2014, 12:38 PM
Eldon says his barrel is marked 9mm. That means to pass Proof it had to measure .355 to pass proof. Guns had to pass proof both dimentional as well as a preasure test.
Brian Dudley
01-29-2014, 12:58 PM
Dave,
I do plan on acquiring your articles on the a Three Barrel Gun Co. That you wrote for the DGJ. And I was intending on asking some of your thoughts on this gun after I aquired it in regards to possible value since they are so obscure and this gun is such a high grade.
The Serial number is 676. It is a WV made gun. I was mistaken. Damascus barrels in 16g over 30/30.
John Mazza
01-29-2014, 01:49 PM
Eldon:
The gun was first proofed in April 1903. The bore gauge of 118.35 is very common for the 9.3 x 72 R. Then, the gun was reproofed in Dec. 1927 (I think that's a 27...). That's what the "Crown R" proof means (reproof). The "9 mm" marking was probably applied at that time. Regardless, based on these markings, there's no way it is chambered for 30-30.
Steve McCarty
01-29-2014, 02:49 PM
I have a friend who has a Vierling in 20x20, 30/40 and 25 auto. I was with him when he bought it from the late/great Dangerous Dave Cunningham. I have not seen the gun for years, but it was a beauty and I think German. The gun was like new. He paid, back then, $5,000.
Eldon Goddard
01-29-2014, 09:23 PM
Now comes the question can a 30-30 be put into a 9.3x72R and fired? This might explain what is going on. Kind of scary but the seller needs to be informed.
wayne goerres
01-29-2014, 10:21 PM
I would be surprised if it fits in the chamber that it dose not split the case when fired. If I were him I would stop doing it.
Eldon Goddard
01-30-2014, 09:53 AM
I have informed the seller. They have not fired the gun in years and do not intend to do so again. I am having him measure the groove diameter with some calipers. He should be getting back to me.
John Mazza
01-30-2014, 10:26 AM
I agree with Wayne - 30-30 shouldn't be fired in that gun. It should also be noted that I see no Nitro proof on the rifle barrel. Apparently, 9.3 x 72 R had different pressure loadings. They had a black powder proof, a nitro proof, and an express proof (Crown E). I'd say that gun has only the black powder proof, and many informed people on the German Gun Collectors would probably not recommend modern loads in it (S&B brand). Plus, SAAMI max. pressure for 30-30 is 38,000 CUP, while the max. for 38-55 is 30,000 CUP. {A generic adage is to use loadings for 38-55 when you load 9.3 x 72R}.
David Noble
01-30-2014, 03:27 PM
I am having him measure the groove diameter with some calipers. He should be getting back to me.
That will help, but he really needs to do a chamber cast to be sure what it really is, and even then it can be difficult to establish because there were proprietory chamberings that are no longer available.
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