Questions on Remington Parker

[Phillip Carr]

The other day I stopped at a small gun shop about 90 miles from me while out quail hunting. I had no business stopping since I am trying to thin the herd not add any. That said the draw of some of these small gun shops draw me in. I looked at a Remington Parker VHE that was in 90%+ condition, case color and bluing. S/N 2411373. It had nicer wood than I have seen on a VHE but definitely looked original in all aspects. The one thing that was a concern was it had a very vintage looking pad, but it was a Whiteline. Is it possible the pad could be original? LOP was about 13 7/8" with the pad. Do the records show what recoil pads were installed during this era? Is there any difference in value between a Parker Bros and a Remington Parker?

[David Noble]

WOW! That's a high serial number. Please recheck that.
If the number is actually 241373, then the book lists it as a VHE 20ga with 28" barrels and capped pistol grip. 1938 production. I doubt there will be any specific information about the butt treatment in the records. I might be wrong but I don't think there white line pads in the late thirties.
Ilion made Remington era guns are scarce compared to Parker Bros Meriden made guns. Meriden made guns, including the Remington era, numbered 241 thou +, while Ilion made guns totaled under 1400.
Remington era guns are often found in nice condition but a 90% gun is quite rare indeed!
That would be a hard one to pass on if the price is not stupid high.
Let us know the particulars of the gun.

[Phillip Carr]

Yes you are correct I typed in one too many 1's. Gun is as you described. S/n is 241373. I will see about posting pictures tomorrow. This is actually the first Remington Parker I have ever seen in person.

[David Holes]

Here is a 236xxx vhe. That is a factory pad with a spacer added. I am not sure of condition percentage, but a nice gun and fun to shoot.

[Dean Romig]

VH guns of Remington manufacture typically had nicer wood than their Meriden counterparts.

Someone else may speak to the White Line pad but I believe they started in the 1930's.

[greg conomos]

Every time I stop in a small gun shop and mention the word Parker, all I get is glazed over eyes and a 'you got to be kidding' response. There are days I think I should just focus on assault rifles and 9mm pistols.

[Bruce Day]

Phil, the white line recoil pads may be original on very late Remington Parkers. There are no factory records proving that, but none disproving either, and white line pads were popular and contemporary to the gun. Some are of the age that they could be original.

Many people, including myself, think highly of Remington Parkers. I make no generalizations and prefer to let each gun stand on its own. A late small bore Remington Parker is scarce and can be a desirable gun. A two barreled A-1S set in 28ga is owned by a major collector friend and is extremely fine.

TPS has an entire chapter on Remington Parkers, I recommend that.

[Phillip Carr]

Thanks for the feedback. I guess I will take another look at the gun. I read all I could find on line, as well as I read the section in the TPS late last night. I guess I have a few guns I can part with to own this one. What are these guns bringing? The last few Parker's I sold did not sell for near what I thought they would.

[Bruce Day]

Not in hand and going only on the representation that it is a 90% gun ( condition is commonly overstated) , the 2013 Blue Book shows $7,500 plus 25% for ejectors equals $9,375 full retail value.

[Dean Romig]

A huge 'if' in the equation of value is if the gun is in 90% original condition, not 90% refinished condition.

[Phillip Carr]

I will post pictures later today to get an opinion on condition. I know condition is everything. That said how close is the Blue Book to reality in today's Parker market?

[Bruce Day]

How close? The Parker section is written by PGCA pres. Bill Mullins from reported sales one year ago. Got a better report of sales values?

There is always anecdotal hearsay. Take the Blue Book as a strong indicator, kind of like land, horses and old Chevys.

[Russ Jackson]

Possibly one of you Gentlemen with a better memory and more knowledge than myself could post about the descriptions in the Serial# Identification book as to the late Remington guns being described as all or most all of them having ," Capped Pistol Grips " when in fact a lot of them were straight Stocked guns as is this one although the book says Capped Pistol Grip ! Seems to me years ago when I bought my first Remington Parker ,this was pointed out to me on a thread way back when ,does anyone else remember this and would you mind posting what You know about this ? If I am mistaken on what I think ,then I would appreciate the info. myself ! Thank You ; Russ

[Bruce Day]

On the IBM cards, if no grip was identified, the default entry was CPG. The IBM cards were an in house historical report , not a production build sheet.

[Phillip Carr]

Thanks for the feedback on the Blue Book and how values are figured and by who. Clearly I was not aware of this. Thanks for this information. Like my 3rd grade teacher used to tell us it's a poor day you do not learn at least one new thing.

[Drew Hause]

The 'White Line' Recoil Pad was patented by Frank Pachmayr 1-28-35 #2091010, but made by Fray-Mershon of Los Angeles. Pachmayr manufactured the pad after WWII

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/22972603/408249806.jpg

[Chuck Bishop]

Bruce is correct that the IBM cards don't show grip type so the default used in the Serialization Book was pistol grip.

I have a VH built at the end of 1937 that had a white line recoil pad on it. I couldn't tell if it was original but it was partially crushed and fossilized. There was no makers name on the pad, just the typical white line spacer.

[Dave Noreen]

A two barreled A-1S set in 28ga is owned by a major collector friend

Is this the gun C.T. "Buck" Buckman of California bought from W.O. Rowley from Dallas, Texas, for $3000 and wrote of in his book 75 Years with the Shotgun? I finally scored a copy of Buckman's book at The Vintage Cup this year.

[greg conomos]

When it comes to Parkers, condition is not everything. It's a big factor, but so is rarity, desirability, etc. We've all seen some pretty ratty Parkers bring good money just because they had really small bores or lots of engraving.

[Phillip Carr]

Actually there was 2 20 gauge VHE one Pistol grip double trigger gun, the other a straight grip single trigger. Not the best pictures but best I could get under the circumstance. Guns are no longer for sale by the owner. I may have been a little conservative on condition after looking them over. Granted screws in the wrong holes on one. I could trade my left one for the straight grip. I believe it was made November 1941.S/N 242177. What s the highest number document so far? Oh well I know who the caretaker is of these cool guns.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss14/Philcarr/018-2.jpg (http://s557.photobucket.com/user/Philcarr/media/018-2.jpg.html)
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[Bill Murphy]

Chuck, pistol grip is not the default for all Remington Parker's. I have .410 listed in the SB as straight grip and it is an original capped pistol grip. Several .410s around 238194 are list as SG

[Bruce Day]

Phil, a very nice, no excuses gun. I still kick myself for passing up a nice, rationally priced Rem Parker G 20 some years back. Now try to find one at a reasonable cost.

Chuck, Bill is correct, and what I said was that if no grip is specified, then CPG is the default. Obviously, there are some with grip specified.

[Chuck Bishop]

Bill and Bruce, let me clarify. All entries for the grip type after S/N 238934 that you find in the Serialization Book is based on the Remington IBM cards which don't list the grip type, except for a very few cases in the first IBM book and they were probably inventory from years ago. S/N 238934 is the last entry found in Stock Book #82. If you look at the Serialization Book, all entries past that S/N have either "P" for Trojans, "C" or "-" for all the rest.

Right or wrong, let me know, I'm always interested in getting educated.

[todd allen]

The other day I stopped at a small gun shop about 90 miles from me while out quail hunting. I had no business stopping since I am trying to thin the herd not add any. That said the draw of some of these small gun shops draw me in. I looked at a Remington Parker VHE that was in 90%+ condition, case color and bluing. S/N 2411373. It had nicer wood than I have seen on a VHE but definitely looked original in all aspects. The one thing that was a concern was it had a very vintage looking pad, but it was a Whiteline. Is it possible the pad could be original? LOP was about 13 7/8" with the pad. Do the records show what recoil pads were installed during this era? Is there any difference in value between a Parker Bros and a Remington Parker?
Take the guns you want to cut out of the herd, and offer them as trade bait for this Parker.

[Russ Jackson]

Possibly one of you Gentlemen with a better memory and more knowledge than myself could post about the descriptions in the Serial# Identification book as to the late Remington guns being described as all or most all of them having ," Capped Pistol Grips " when in fact a lot of them were straight Stocked guns as is this one although the book says Capped Pistol Grip ! Seems to me years ago when I bought my first Remington Parker ,this was pointed out to me on a thread way back when ,does anyone else remember this and would you mind posting what You know about this ? If I am mistaken on what I think ,then I would appreciate the info. myself ! Thank You ; Russ

Fellas ,I didn't intend to dig up an old ditch when I posted this ,I just didn't have the facts and figures well enough to make a definative comment on it myself ,Thank You all for the Posts I believe this type of information is of great value to any and all who have an interest in the Parker Guns !

[todd allen]

Fellas ,I didn't intend to dig up an old ditch when I posted this ,I just didn't have the facts and figures well enough to make a definative comment on it myself ,Thank You all for the Posts I believe this type of information is of great value to any and all who have an interest in the Parker Guns !
I have Serial Number 242122, and it is a straight grip gun.

[Bill Murphy]

I am convinced that late Remington Parker's were made with Mershon pads. I have one and I have seen others that I thought were original. There is a Remington Model 31TC in the Remington Museum that has one and I don't believe that gun has ever left the plant. Hawkins pads had disappeared from inventories before Parker production ended.

[Phillip Carr]

Bill I tend to agree with you. When I started researching these guns I found many Remington Parkers with this pad. On another note. The owner of these 2 20 gauges also has a Rem-Parker 12 gauge skeet gun. He said it is on marked In and Out but not skeet. I am going to go shooting with him tomorrow and will get a chance to look at the gun at that time. Made in 1937 I believe he told me.

[greg conomos]

This is my famous (to me) late Remington 241xxx DHE with a Hawkins pad. No letter available for this gun....so is this pad original or not?

[Drew Hause]

I believe that is an original Hawkins Model 25 pad, and that is all that can be said

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/22972603/373485786.jpg

[Dave Noreen]

The Hawkins pad was the pad shown on most Remington and Parker guns of that era --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Remington/Model32TC1939.jpg

but this 1939 vintage paper shows the Parker SBT with a Jostam Hy-Gun and the DHE-Grade Double Trap Gun with a Silvers-type --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Parker/ParkerTrapGuns1939.jpg

[edgarspencer]

From the wire bound (1939, I believe) Remington catalog.

[greg conomos]

That is it exactly, thanks.