to cut or not to cut

[ForrestArmstrong]

I've located an early 1900s VH 12 with 30" barrels. Overall, gun is good-very good, sound, tight, bright bores, etc. Problem is someone reamed one choke to cylinder (other is full). Is better to leave it alone or possibly cut barrels to 26-28" and have two cylinder barrels for quail, etc.? Thanks for your opinions.

[Mark Ouellette]

Forrest,

No, no, no! If you cut a quarter inch off the barrels the gun will be worth only half of what it was before!

The British use cylinder and full for field guns. I have a Henry Atkin sidelock 10 gauge with those choke constrictions. At 8 pounds it is deadly in the field!

Load the open barrel with larger shot. It will pattern tightly. Use smaller shot in the full choke barrel.

Please, never cut barrels...
Mark

[ForrestArmstrong]

Thank you Mark, what I thought, will take your advice.

[Rick Losey]

Listen to Mark, the original length is important

and by the way- the only gun i have had modified was a 28" Fox 20 that needed work anyway. it was very full and fuller with modern loads.

Its a grouse/woodcock gun and I had the chokes made skeet1 and imp mod (just under full) - it is a great upland combination.

i don't shred a close bird if i hit it and can still reach out after I miss with the right and manage to regain some composure before using the left.

[todd allen]

By all means don't cut the barrels. Pattern it, then try it in the field on game birds. You might be surprised to find that this gun has perfect chokes for your purpose.
IMO, the best set up for a bird gun is a quality two trigger SxS, with an open first barrel, and a tight second barrel.
You may have the perfect quail gun. If the patterns don't work for you, sell it, and find one better suited to your needs.
The best way to modify a Parker, is to modify who owns it, by finding one that fits your needs.

[Brian Dudley]

I have found that Cylinder and full is a pretty good combination to have.

[ForrestArmstrong]

Thanks fellas, I promise not to cut barrels, only modification I will make is repair toe and add repro buttplate (unless someone has an original they will sell).

This is the gun: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Parker-VH-12-GA/1702341.uts?Ntk=GunLibrary&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch%2F%3FN%3D%26No%3D60 %26Ntk%3DGunLibrary%26Ntt%3Dparker%26Ntx%3Dmode%25 2Bmatchallpartial%26WTz_st%3D%26WTz_stype%3DSP%26f orm_state%3DsearchForm%26recordsPerPage%3D20%26sea rch%3Dparker%26searchTypeByFilter%3DGunLibrary%26x %3D44%26y%3D16&Ntt=parker

[Dave Suponski]

Yup,My PH 16 gauge 26" gun was factory ordered cyl/full. A great upland combination.

[Bill Murphy]

Did anyone tell you the chokes were reamed out? Chances are the chokes are original. Nice gun, rare ball grip.

[Mark Callanan]

Thanks fellas, I promise not to cut barrels, only modification I will make is repair toe and add repro buttplate (unless someone has an original they will sell).
This is the gun: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Parker-VH-12-GA/1702341.uts?Ntk=GunLibrary&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch%2F%3FN%3D%26No%3D60 %26Ntk%3DGunLibrary%26Ntt%3Dparker%26Ntx%3Dmode%25 2Bmatchallpartial%26WTz_st%3D%26WTz_stype%3DSP%26f orm_state%3DsearchForm%26recordsPerPage%3D20%26sea rch%3Dparker%26searchTypeByFilter%3DGunLibrary%26x %3D44%26y%3D16&Ntt=parker



I like it
Not a bad deal
Buy it quick …..

[Gerald McPherson]

Love that ball grip. Next best thing to a straight grip.Take that gun hunting. I bet you will be suprised. Try 1 ounce no. six shot. You won't be chasing cripples. Great for doves too. Gerald

[wayne goerres]

Nice gun at a great price. Wish I had seen it first.

[todd allen]

That will make a great upland gun. I absolutely love the cyl/full choke configuration. Not a bad price either.
One of my favorite guns is a BHE with 06k/35k chokes. Close bird - frt. trigger. Long bird - back trigger. It's like magic.

[ForrestArmstrong]

Thanks fellas again. The guy at Cabelas told me over the phone it might have been reamed, but he didn't know. Like me, he thought it was an unusual choke combination. Looking forward to getting it and I appreciate the expertise I have gotten off these forums.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

,Wow, that gun is in my "backyard". Havent been to Cabelas for a while. I am surprised they are not asking more for it. They are usually overpriced.

[Rick Losey]

Harold

that is what you get for spending all that time chasing birds in the UP. :)


looks like a nice gun Forest, as said before a letter may be able to answer the question of the chokes original configuration.

in any case, the set up is very useful

[Harold Lee Pickens]

A somewhat similar question. How do you feel about changing chokes to make a gun more shooter friendly. My first Parker, a VH 16 1 frame, was originally m/f, but back in 1986 I had it changed to IC/IC, and it became a much better upland gun( gunsmith only had an IC reamer for 16's).
I have a nice Lefever G grade 16 damascus from 1897 with 28" f/f, and even with spreaders it shoots dam tight--still, I successfully used it on grouse and woodcock. Have thought about opening it up, but probably will not.
I have a VH 20 and DHE 16 O frame, both have 26" barrels and have factory chokes ordered at cyl/mod , confirmed by factory letter.
I also have a very early" The Sterlingworth Co." pin gun with factory cyl/mod borings, a standard offering in their field guns. I woulnt be surprized if that cyl/f was ordered that way.
Great find, sorry i missed it--snooze, you lose!

[Leighton Stallones]

I am always amazed at the bird killing and clay busting that a cylinder bore can do.

[Mills Morrison]

Ed Muderlak did a great article in an earlier Parker Pages, something like "In Praise of Cut Barrels". While I would never cut a barrel on a Parker, I do have some with cut barrels and sometimes buy Parkers with cut barrels to get more open chokes.

[Rich Anderson]

Generally you have to cut a big chunk off a Parker barrel to get more open chokes as the chokes can be up to 4 inches in length. I have two guns that are IC/F from Parker.

Harold try some spreaders first but one of my favorite Grouse guns is a GH 16with 28 inch damascuss bbls that were opened to .004 & .010.

[Daryl Corona]

A somewhat similar question. How do you feel about changing chokes to make a gun more shooter friendly. My first Parker, a VH 16 1 frame, was originally m/f, but back in 1986 I had it changed to IC/IC, and it became a much better upland gun( gunsmith only had an IC reamer for 16's).
I have a nice Lefever G grade 16 damascus from 1897 with 28" f/f, and even with spreaders it shoots dam tight--still, I successfully used it on grouse and woodcock. Have thought about opening it up, but probably will not.
I have a VH 20 and DHE 16 O frame, both have 26" barrels and have factory chokes ordered at cyl/mod , confirmed by factory letter.
I also have a very early" The Sterlingworth Co." pin gun with factory cyl/mod borings, a standard offering in their field guns. I woulnt be surprized if that cyl/f was ordered that way.
Great find, sorry i missed it--snooze, you lose!

Harold;
I'm against reaming choke out of a gun especially if the factory letter on that gun states what chokes were ordered. A well known shooter once told me that misses are measured in feet, choke only gives you inches.
It took a while for this to register in my dense brain but what he was saying was focus on your target, not your chokes. The older I get and the more I shoot the more sense it makes to me. Glad you had a good trip to the UP.

[Mills Morrison]

The thing is, if you practice hard and become a good shot with full choked barrels, you are not a good shot, but a really good shot.

[Daryl Corona]

The thing is, if you practice hard and become a good shot with full choked barrels, you are not a good shot, but a really good shot.

If your center the bird (feathered or clay) in your pattern it does'nt matter if you are using full choke or cylinder bore, you are still in the center. That's where you want to be. A tight choke gives you instant feedback on where you are shooting, chipped targets do not.

[Rick Losey]

ok for clays

but in the uplands, in close cover, centering a bird with a fullest choke means you are a good shot and going hungry

[Mills Morrison]

That is right.

[King Brown]

My 1889 16 Parker hammer 0 grade factory-ordered cyl/full. My son on first hunt killed a black on his first shot with it at 35 yards!

[Daryl Corona]

You are missing my point. Don't cut or ream out an original set of barrels, have fun locating a gun with original open chokes if that is what you feel comfortable with. I think Cyl/Full is the best combination for me. Hunt with what you shoot best. The birds deserve it. But I promise you; if you practice with a tightly choked gun on clays you will be deadly in the field where it really counts on feathers no matter what choke you choose.

[ForrestArmstrong]

I received this gun today and it is a beauty, better than the pictures, a fair amount of case colors & blue, tight as a tick. My first vintage Parker so my question is what are maximum loads for this gun? I was thinking 1 1/8 ounces.

[ed good]

an ounce sounds better; keeping in mind that the wood is over 100 years old!

[Rick Losey]

exactly - go with the 1OZ RST's and enjoy it

they will drop any upland bird at a reasonable range

[Bruce Day]

I received this gun today and it is a beauty, better than the pictures, a fair amount of case colors & blue, tight as a tick. My first vintage Parker so my question is what are maximum loads for this gun? I was thinking 1 1/8 ounces.


Mr. Armstrong, in direct answer to your question, I cannot tell you about your particular gun in its present condition, but knowing what Parker stated about guns they made like yours, consider the following facts:

1. The Parker Story chapter on barrels provides at p.715 (?) a service and proof load table for Parker guns. Your gun would have been made for a 10,800psi service load, to my recall. Present SAAMI 12ga service loads are 12,500.

2. Following is a Parker load table from the Parker produced booklet "The Small Bore Shot Gun" . The maximum 12 ga load listed is an 1 1/4oz, 3 1/2 dram load. Velocities at 100 feet are provided, backed to muzzle velocity as used today, its about 1250 fps.

3. Your gun would have been targeted and test shot with an 1 1/8oz, 3 dram load, and a hang tag made with pattern results. This load was considered a good patterning load by Parker. ( this is the hunting load I use in 12ga Parkers and has also been the standard trap load for over a century)

Others may have their preferred loads less than what Parker said, but your question asked the maximum load. Presuming you mean recommended maximum service load, Short answer: 10,800psi. The true max load is probably in excess of 20,000 psi based upon destructive tests conducted.

[ForrestArmstrong]

Thanks guys, I have lots of old (50 years or so) 1 & 1 1/8 oz shells. Any new ammo I buy for this gun will be 1 oz.