Help with CH 12G Parker fore-end

[Peter Baxter]

Can anyone be of help in regards to my Parker CH or grade 4 12 gauge that is missing the complete fore-end assembly? It is based on a #1 frame. I either have to locate one, (non matching serial #), have one fabricated, (cost$ ?), or sell the gun as is. I have attached pictures and would certainly appreciate any guidance. My initial thought is that a collector would prefer a partial matched gun than one incorporating non matching components.

[Mark Ouellette]

Peter,

I moved your post to its own thread in this Parker General Discussions forum.

It is always best to start a new thread when one introduces a new subject.

Welcome aboard the Parker forums,
Mark

[Dean Romig]

BREAKING NEWS.... Your Parker is not a Grade-4 but is a BH or Grade-5... maybe even a 6

What is your gun's serial number? There are loose forends hereabouts.

Probably 172668 - 172669 or 172670

[Dean Romig]

OMG, Not another.:shock:

Please get some oil on that wonderful Parker to stop the rust and then get it to an expert to rid the gun of the rust.

[wayne goerres]

Its amazing that such a bueatiful gun could be missing a forearm.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Sometimes they get lost, believe it or not, beautiful gun Gary

[Larry Frey]

Didn't Eric recently have a high grade (A) forend for sale? If it was a 12 gage and still available it might be a good match.

[George Lander]

I can't tell for sure if the stock is original to the gun. If not whoever built the stock may still have the original forend.

Best Regards, George

[Dean Romig]

The stock appears to me to be completely Meriden Parker original... except possibly the pad.

It is a 1916 gun, was that style of pad available in 1916?

[Channing Will]

What a beauty. Does the stock have a metal oval or shield anywhere? If not I would bet its been restocked at some point in its life. Either way it looks good except for the pad. If you don't have any leads on where the original forend might be, then the chances of finding it are slim. The next best thing would be to find a lower grade donor iron in good condition that you could have fitted, engraved to match, and stocked with an appropriate piece of wood. Would be costly but the gun is worth it. Take Dean's advice and please get some oil on that rust!

[Dean Romig]

I have not seen a fluer di lis or the nose of the comb duplicated so well on the same stock and I'll take your bet Channing... what are the stakes?

[Channing Will]

I have not seen a fluer di lis or the nose of the comb duplicated so well on the same stock and I'll take your bet Channing... what are the stakes?

I agree about the shaping Dean. I just cant understand why an original gun of this grade would be without an oval or shield. It could have an oval and the angle of the picture doesn't show it clearly. Or perhaps it has a nice large plaque on the other side of the stock?

[Dennis V. Nix]

Peter,

I have decided to take it upon myself to help you out of this dilemma and take the gun off your hands. Just think; no more will you have to worry about the rust problems, what happened to the original forend; is it in a good home or being abused by laying around completely lonely. I will have a new forend made to match the original and I will take care of the gun and give it a good home for the rest of my life. Simply PM me with how you want to send me the gun. Your worries are over.

Seriously that is a beautiful gun. If it was me I would have a new forend made and enjoy the daylights out of it.

Dennis

[Scott Janowski]

Could be the shield is on the grip cap?

[Dean Romig]

True, Grade-5 and higher had the gold insert in the grip cap. Good catch Scott.

[Channing Will]

Could be the shield is on the grip cap?

Good call Scott, most B grade guns had a gold insert in the grip cap.

[Brian Dudley]

Is it an ejector gun or an extractor? That is the main thing to consider when looking for a forend. Though finding an original and complete high grade forend may be difficult, it can be done if you are patient. And there MAY be issues with fit.

It may be best for you to consider having a new forend crafted from parts. An original 1 frame iron can be fitted, or an original unfitted iron can be fitted as well. New wood made and all parts engraved to match.

Would maybe be more than finding an original, but only way to guarantee a perfect fit. And, iron can be stamped so that non-originality would be hard to detect.

Cost of finding an original forend complete all depends on how much someone wants for such a high grade piece.

[edgarspencer]

Folsom Pads were correct for early 20s guns. Shield is on the cap. Earlier ones had a screw through the center, later ones were affixed from inside screw down through the head.

[Craig Larter]

Looks like an A to me based on the full coverage of engraving on the bottom. Very pretty gun.

[Dean Romig]

That would make it 172669

[Brad Bachelder]

I just checked 4 A grades a nd 2 B grades, None had shields or ovals but all of them had the gold inlayed grip plate. Based on the engraving I would guess this gun to be a A grade. Most of the B grade guns we have seen tend to incorporate floral patterns. If this gun has been restocked it is extremely well done all the way down to the checkering master lines.

Brad

[Bill Murphy]

So, Peter, we think it's your turn. What is the grade marking on the receiver flat?

[Dean Romig]

And if you're confident that you can lift the trigger guard and rotate it counter-clockwise, without doing any damage to the screw or the wood, is the gun's serial number stamped into the channel?
I'm quite certain, believing it to be the original stock, you will find it there.

[edgarspencer]

All grades, B and above had gold grip caps on the pistol grip, and straight stocked guns had gold, oval shaped shields. The few that I've seen with POW grips had a cap of gold on the ball of the grip. I've seen some large shields shaped like the state highway sign too.
I was told that the grip caps were 18K. Can't say I've ever heard what the shields were. Even back then, I suspect they were gold filled (thicker layer of gold than gold plated), not solid.

[Dean Romig]

Even back then, I suspect they were gold filled (thicker layer of gold than gold plated), not solid.


I don't know if I'd agree with that... Take a look at some of the gold grip caps that were deeply engraved - I think they are solid gold.

[edgarspencer]

According to the stockman who had my BHE stock off, when he took the cap off, it was 'greenish' on the back. That sounds like brass to me. I have a high grade Bailey, Banks and Biddle watch with a deeply engrave monogram, but it's a 50 year GF case by Crescent Watch Case Co.

[Brian Dudley]

The corrosion on the back of the lower grade inserts is what causes them to push up off the stock. More so on older hammer guns since they have been allowed to corrode longer. I have been able to remove them, clean both the insert and the inletting and have them drop right back in without having to deepen the inletting at all.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Interesting that he's not a member but is essentially offering the gun for sale.

DLH

[Larry Frey]

All grades, B and above had gold grip caps on the pistol grip, and straight stocked guns had gold, oval shaped shields.

Edgar,
As we have so often seen with Parkers there are always exceptions. The AHE featured on the cover of the autumn issue of Parker Pages had neither the gold grip cap nor a gold shield rather the owner requested his initials in gold on the trigger guard.

[Mark Ouellette]

Interesting that he's not a member but is essentially offering the gun for sale.

DLH

Destry and all concerned,

I hope this thread remains in the spirit of a someone new to Parkers obtaining information.

To sell on this PGCA forum one has to be a member of the Parker Gun Collector's Association. That membership is $40 per year and payable via PayPal if desired.

I do however believe that presently Mr. Baxter merely desires to learn about his Parker. Should he decide to sell a valuable Parker such as this, as a man of integrity he would first join the PGCA. Then he may list it for sale in the Member's Only For Sale Forum. I have bought and sold several Parkers using that forum.

But, should this thread evolve into a non-member desiring to sell the subject Parker then this entire thread shall disappear before you can blink.

Respectfully to all,
Mark

[Peter Baxter]

BREAKING NEWS.... Your Parker is not a Grade-4 but is a BH or Grade-5... maybe even a 6

What is your gun's serial number? There are loose forends hereabouts.

Probably 172668 - 172669 or 172670

Thanks for the help, the serial number is 172668 with a 5 below it. My question is in regards to it current value vs potential value if a fore-end assembly can be located? It is my assumption that all components of this shotgun would have matching serial numbers yes? So if the original fore-end is no longer in existence how does one support increased value with a non matching fore-end?

[greg conomos]

Well, the value of the gun with a non-number forend will be less than if it had a matching forend, for sure. But the value will still be higher than what it has now which is a non-numbers, non-wood, non-iron forend.

[Peter Baxter]

OMG, Not another.:shock:

Please get some oil on that wonderful Parker to stop the rust and then get it to an expert to rid the gun of the rust.

The gun was treated with a coating of gun oil last night. The good news is that the existing rust is very superficial and will easily clean up with a high likelihood of no pitting at all.

[edgarspencer]

Edgar,
As we have so often seen with Parkers there are always exceptions. The AHE featured on the cover of the autumn issue of Parker Pages had neither the gold grip cap nor a gold shield rather the owner requested his initials in gold on the trigger guard.

Here's another. Gold grip cap, with no engraving, but gold initials on the trigger bow.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=375077295

[Craig Larter]

Nice grade 5, only one I can remember with double game birds on the side and double dogs on the trigger plate----very nice-----certainly well worth putting it back together.

[todd allen]

Can anyone be of help in regards to my Parker CH or grade 4 12 gauge that is missing the complete fore-end assembly? It is based on a #1 frame.
Being that it is based on a 1 Frame would make it tricky to find a replacement, I would think.

[edgarspencer]

Being that it is based on a 1 Frame would make it tricky to find a replacement, I would think.

While 1 frame 12s are less often seen, there are plenty of 1 frame 16s out there, so finding a donor fore end iron isn't impossible. However, finding a one frame fore end wood, which were usually fully checkered, though not all, may prove more tricky.
Even with a non matching fore end, If I found it under my bed, I wouldn't throw it out.

[wayne goerres]

I would probably put it in my bed.

[charlie cleveland]

wayne thats a good idea you got there...charlie

[Eric Eis]

Didn't Eric recently have a high grade (A) forend for sale? If it was a 12 gage and still available it might be a good match.

I did have a forend it was a B grade (not an A like I first thought) it was sold to another Parker collector a few months ago. It was an ejector number 1 frame if I remember correctly.

[Dean Romig]

Eric, that's exactly what Peter needs. What was the serial number on that forend you sold? It may have been the missing one from this gun. If the person you sold it to hasn't put it to use yet, maybe he could be convinced to part with it for Peter's BHE on the 1-frame.

[Brian Dudley]

Eric had that iron advertised as a 1-1/2 frame. So it would not work on this 1 frame gun. I know of who purchased that forend and he does have specific plans for it.

[Dean Romig]

Is it 172668 Brian??

[Jeff Bonadurer]

If Mr. Baxter knows that his gun is based on a #1 frame, I am sure he can read the letters on the water table. :rolleyes:

Putting the feelers out here for the missing components is a good start in finding a replacement.

[Brian Dudley]

Is it 172668 Brian??

No, the forend that Eric had advertised was a post 200,000 serial number. It was advertised at a 1-1/2 frame forend.

The subject gun of this thread IS 172668.

[Eric Eis]

No, the forend that Eric had advertised was a post 200,000 serial number. It was advertised at a 1-1/2 frame forend.

The subject gun of this thread IS 172668.

Brian I am glad you cleared that up as being a 1 1/2 and not a 1 frame. I was not sure and was thinking oh man if that's the gun I really screwed up but I also know if it was the gun the owner I sold it to would have done the right thing and sold it back to the owner of the gun.

[ForrestArmstrong]

Here is a forend for sale on GB, probably not the right one:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=375729851

[ED J, MORGAN]

Much over priced

[Destry L. Hoffard]

Overpriced? If you need one $300 is a gift.

[George Lang]

Seems like more than a fair price to me and condition looks pretty good.

[Pat Dugan]

I have a no 2 forend that I am using on a 1 1/2 frame 12 ga that works fine, mine is an extractor forend. I know its not the collector thing to do but it is only a 32nd proud on each side. Most non Parker people would not notice. this man might try a no 2 forend until he finds one or has one made made.

[Brian Dudley]

1-1/2 frame and 2 frame forends are pretty much interchangeable.
1 frame forends however are much narrower.

[Dean Romig]

It doesn't have the original tip. It is a Grade-1 forend with a Grade-0 tip.

For a "put together" forend it is overpriced.

[Dean Romig]

Peter stopped by today to show me his BHE. I am impressed with the gun overall. It has some rust issues but they can be dealt with without having a 'restoration' done to the entire gun. It still exhibits about 40% original case color and 97% original barrel blue. Every screw is perfectly timed and have never been touched since leaving Meriden. and the checkering is hardly worn and is beautiful. Once that rust is gone and most of the original 'use and wear patina' is retained it will be a very valuable Grade-5 Parker. The big hurdle that must be overcome is the missing 1-frame ejector forend. If anyone has a 1-frame ejector forend of any grade please notify Peter.
He does not have a research letter yet but I know it's going to be an interesting one. he gold grip cap has initials and besides being made on the 1-frame it also has 26" uncut barrels with choke constrictions measuring about .006" left and about .030" right. Nice modern dimensions too.

The serial number is 172668 so if you have any loose forends about please check those serial numbers.