No tang safety on VH

[David Hamming]

Steve Cobb has a VH 20ga with no tang safety for sale on his website. I have no interest in the gun.
I have looked at the pics, is their a safety some where that I am missing? Seems odd, let alone a tad dangerous.

Dave

[Pete Lester]

Although more unusual in 20ga Parker built many guns that were ordered without a safety. These are generally referred to as Pigeon Guns. They are generally quite desireable for their lack of drop. They usually have long barrels and tight chokes. Many were patterned by Parker for what were "heavy" loads in that era as well. I have never shot live pigeons (some here have), when money is on the line you do not want a lost bird for failure to fire due to forgetting to take the safety off. Same rule holds true in trapshooting today, although in trap you are allowed one failure to fire (per field of 25) for any reason and subsequent failures on each field after the "grace" bird is a lost target for score.

Lack of a safety on a gun used for clays would not bother me at all nor would I deem it unsafe.

As we used to drill into peoples heads in Hunter Safety, "a safety is a mechanical device that can fail", "control the muzzle!".

[Larry Frey]

This little DH 28 gage is about as far from a pigeon gun as you could get yet it was ordered without the tang safety. The only reason that makes any sense would be that the owner was used to hunting with the gun open perhaps behind pointers which would allow time to close the gun and move in for the shot.

[Don Kaas]

Almost ALL smallbore guns made without safeties were not used in the pigeon rings pre- WWII. Contemporary records of pigeons shoots during the hammerless Parker period (1888-1941) are virtually silent on sub-gauge events (today 28 gauge pigeon events are held occasionally) Most 16 and 20 gauge Parkers made without safeties were built for bobwhite quail shooting which in the day was often practiced from horseback. Guns were removed from a saddle scabbard and were not loaded until the shooter had dismounted and walked towards the pointing dogs. Nash Buckingham was a well known devotee of no safety guns for upland and well as waterfowling and had atleast 3 custom made Foxes made without one. Notwithstanding this, many 12 gauge safetyless guns never shot a pigeon but were used for trapshooting clay targets.

[Ed Blake]

Owning and shooting a couple guns without mechanical safeties has made me very aware of what I've got in my hands. The primary safety is what's between your ears, and making the transition back to a gun with a safety takes a little more concentration. It's made me a safer shooter. Dang Larry, is that your 28? That gun probably rode in a scabbard, unloaded, and only loaded when its gentleman owner dismounted his horse to take a shot. Nice.

[Pete Lester]

Don, the quail hunting makes sense. If this one was built for quail hunting why the longer barrels, tight chokes and 2 7/8 chambers (assuming they are orginal)? I already know we can only hazard a guess at this point.

[Dean Romig]

Larry's little DH 28 ga was most certainly (in my opinion) an upland gun and as Larry suggests, was only closed when walking in on the point, again, in my opinion. It is choked rt.-open and left-tight and was great fun to shoot on a SC course for small gauges. That one just slipped away from me when Larry decided to move it. :(

[David Hamming]

Thanks for enlightening me, Gentlemen.
I thought maybe a quail gun, didn't think about a pigeon gun.

I am still adjusting to a striker fired handgun, so personally I'll keep a safety on my shotguns.

Thanks again for the replies.

Dave

[Fred Preston]

190874, a SG VHE 20 2 bbl. set has no safety. #1 bbl. is 32" with 2&7/8" chambers choked tight & tight; #2 bbl. is 28" choked IC & M. Bbl. #1 weighs a couple ozs. less than #2; both balance at the pin.

[Don Kaas]

Fred- sounds like some Southern boy's dream dove/"bird" gun or a California sport's answer to ducks in the Valley and California quail in the foothills...

[Fred Preston]

Don, It's a real interesting gun; I sure wish we had records for it. It has seen a lot of use but it works and fits great except for the cranky early Parker SST. The trigger is knurled or checked and is positioned in the center of the guard. Larry D. worked on it and it was good for a couple of years, but now a second shot can't be counted on. The stock is definitely Parker with an old Hawkins pad but the comb is heavier (thicker) than usual. Barrel #2 came later as it's marked with Parker overload proved. The gun has taken both pheasant and grouse for me and Ringo.

[Dave Suponski]

I dunno Fred sure sounds like a trap gun to me...

[Destry L. Hoffard]

What frame is that gun on Fred? I've handled it but have forgotten needless to say.

DLH

[Fred Preston]

"O" frame

[Don Kaas]

20 gauge trap gun..that would be the obvious guess...

[Destry L. Hoffard]

No it's a trap and skeet combo! You should know better Kaas....

DLH

[Dale Zywina]

I don't see the need for a saftey on a double, like a previous member said " it what is between the ears" as I have seen more accidental discharges at the range all over there "saftey". I have a Parker DHE 12ga. with 30" barrells straight stock, tightly choked without the saftey ,made in 1911 and have no problem hunting partridge here in northern Ontario Canada. Hunting upland game here your chasing birds and rabbits threw the thick brush and I sure have no need of a safety, I just keep in my head the rules I was taught as a youth by my Dad and Grampa. A saftey is a lawyer preventitive, we never nowadays put any responsibility on our actions on our self anymore!!!By the way nice gun :rotf:

[Robin Lewis]

No safety on the range is OK but in the field? You have never slipped or had your feet tangle in the weeds and gone to the ground? With a safety on, sticks and heavy weed stems have a slim chance of firing the gun if you fall. What's between the ears doesn't do your hunting partner any good if he ends up in the line of fire if you accidentally fall.:duck:

[Dale Zywina]

We have so much land here we don't walk side by side as we have millions of acres of land and also only one man at a time goes into the thickets while the others wait on the slash road!! And yes I have slipped but the gun is broke when hunting with partners, I think you have been listening to those lawyers to much down in the lower 48, up here we don't sue at a drop of the hat, people up here are still responsible for their own actions, and it should not be up to a company lawyer weather I want a saftey or not on my gun. It is unfortunate that our society has become Blame the guy who produces the product, its unreal. If you don't agree with me thats fine we seem to have that right for now, but if those lawyers keep going you never no!! I also understand that your former vice president can shoot his partner accidentally and knowone called the lawyers:rotf::rotf::rotf: or the gun manufacturer, just kidding I do have a sence of HAHA:bigbye: Dale in Canada