Original Colors?

[Justin Julian]

I have no connection to this gun, other than it caught my eye during its first auction, which closed at around $3300 if memory serves. Not sure why its back on the block...in any event, what are the opinions on whether those case colors are original? The more I look at them, the less sure I am. And then there's the matter of the Vulcan barrels on a G grade...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=373902959

[Channing Will]

It's difficult to say without having the gun in hand but if I had to guess I would say it's been redone. It's a pre Remington gun and to me the colors just don't look quite right. The cocking crank also appears to have been color case hardened and I don't think I have ever seen one with colors. JMHO for what it's worth.

[Dean Romig]

The rib is from Vulcan barrels but it has the correct P.S. stamp for Parker Special Steel barrels. And then there is the too visible seam between the rib and the doll's head extension... then there are the frame screws that show just too much wear for the level of remaining case color... then there is the checkering which appears too fine (LPI) for a grade 2... then there's the excessive wear on the trigger guard screw and engraving worn off of the retaining screw... but it appears to be an excellent buy at the $999 starting price.

[todd allen]

It's too bad these guns didn't come with an odometer to tell us what the original miles were.
This one probably had the odometer turned back a little.

[ed good]

or could it be a Remington era gun, which are known to have been made using less than strict parker bros. era specs?

[edgarspencer]

The fore end looks more like the Remington, bull nose style, as opposed to the more slender Meriden style. Colors aren't what one would expect from Meriden either, but it might have been worked over in Illion.

[Dave Suponski]

or an old Turnbull restoration.

[Brian Dudley]

I do not believe this gun has original Meriden case colors. The look is not at all like the colors for a gun of that era. This is a gun made about 1928.

[greg conomos]

I believe the forend iron has not been redone, but receiver has. I also have issues with the fit of the wood to the receiver.

[Brian Dudley]

This is an example of factory case colors on a gun made the same year as the one asked about in this thread.
And is a good example of colors from this era.
A glossier on the surface look. Kind of like oil or gasoline on a water puddle.

28432

[Ray Masciarella]

Brian

Is the glossy look the result of polishing the frame or the colors themselves? I always thought it was the result of polishing and was more obvious on guns on lower grade guns with less engraving. Higher grade guns that I have seen with a lot of color seem to be dull. Am I understanding this correctly or is it something about the way Parker did the colors that produced the gloss?

Thx, Ray

[Bruce Day]

1905 Meridan`

[Brian Dudley]

The example that Bruce shows is a good example of more early colors. The subject gun at the beginning of this thread is more like Bruce's example. It does not look out of place on a Parker, just not true to the time period.

Yes, that glossy look is more noticeable on lower grade guns due to the lack of engraving. But the appearance of the colors themselves are notably different than early guns.

[Bruce Day]

or could it be a Remington era gun, which are known to have been made using less than strict parker bros. era specs?


I didn't know that.

1939 Rem Parker:

[Russ Lindsay]

Justin, great thread. Many of us on this forum want to acquire the best possible firearms in the best possible condition. Yet we probably do not own one or more "like new" condition Parkers to compare against. Further, it is clear, it has proven difficult to match the chemistry and metallurgy necessary to create a Parker that looks like it is a century old and yet in "like new" condition.

Listening to others discuss what they look for and how they determine the condition of a Parker shotgun is much like sitting around the fire listening to your grandfather and uncle discuss their guns, prejudices, beliefs, and sharing knowledge about woods craft and guns in days long gone. If you think guns are an interesting topic, bring up the characteristics of your favorite hunting dog!

Sooner or later you have to go with your "gut" but letting other experienced owners have a look is priceless. Thanks for letting us sit by the electronic fire and listen in. Russ

[Bill Murphy]

At the risk of being a bit too picky..... Brian's picture sure doesn't exhibit the oil on water look that he is describing. Maybe he's describing the gun on the internet link. Of course the GB gun has new case colors. The question is "How did the Vulcan rib get on a set of probably original Parker Special Steel barrels?" The rib replacement is obvious because of the poor fit of the rib to the sub rib. That gun is a real temptation at the present price.

[Bill Murphy]

Check out the KelTec gun in the seller's past auctions. It has sold with no reserve four or five times, been relisted four or five times. How does the KelTec keep returning to the GB site?? How is it that the Parker had 19 bidders up to $3300 and the seller has it back on GB? If the gun were returned by the successful bidder, I would be contacting the second high bidder, but he apparently didn't do that. What is going on here? I have been dealing with GB for a long time, and this is a new one on me. This seller has wonderful feedback, so maybe he has just found a way to save GB fees on multiple identical guns by just hitting the relist button when he sells one of them. My take is that he may have had four or five KelTec .22s and legitimately sold each one.

[ed good]

gunbroker sellers are prohibited from contacting non winning bidders.

[ed good]

and then there is this one: GHE WITH VULCAN BARRELS, which we discussed in this forum back in august.

[Brian Dudley]

All one has to do is look up the serial number to know it is or is not a Remongton built gun.

Bill,
The photo I posted is of a 1928 VH with high condition original colors. Oil on a water puddle is how I could think to describe the difference in appearance from the restored colors on the gun in the link or earlier Meriden Parkers.

[ed good]

brian: could it be that the receiver was made during the meridian era and then the gun assembled during the Remington era? also, I think, I read some where that delgrego assembled some guns from left over parts...a factory letter could be helpful.

[Bill Murphy]

Ed is only a high volume gun dealer who specializes in early American side by sides. Why would Brian expect him to know anything about when Remington Parkers were made? By the way, Ed is bidding on this gun, so we can take that into account when we read his comments.

[Justin Julian]

As DoubleO Frame previously noted, the cocking crank has case colors on it. I've never seen an original condition Parker with its cocking crank colored. Seems pretty obvious now that the gun was recolored and whoever did it did not bother to remove the cocking crank.
As for the gun being relisted, I have that question pending to the seller. Usually when that happens its because the buyer backed out with a story about how he just lost his job moments after hitting the bid button. Almost 20% of GB buyers are like that in my experience. There is definitely a segment of society that derives some form of a thrill from winning auctions with no intent or ability to follow through with the purchase.

[Brian Dudley]

1928 was at a time when Meriden production was at a very high point. Several thousand per year. And, serial numbers were assigned at the time that parts were pulled from stock to actually make a gun. So, that serial number tells us the gun went into factory production and made in 1928.

[Robert Beach]

While it may not help to reveal the gun's provenance through more recent years, it might be of interest to know that Parker 227926 was received in inventory at Von Lengerke & Detmold on October 16, 1928. The spec's were recorded as follows: Grade GHE, 12 gauge, 30 inch bbls, weight: 7lbs, 8 oz., D@H - 2 7/16, D@C - 1 1/2, LOP - 14 3/8, Choked: F&F, FPG, Ejectors. Sold to Mrs W.W. Herrick on December 15, 1928 for $105.00.

Bob Beach
Archivist
Griffin & Howe, Inc.

[ed good]

well, based upon Robert's post, this ghe for sale on gunbroker was a regular meridian production gun...

wonder what a letter would reveal, re return for repair?

[Bill Murphy]

Mr. Beach kindly let us have some great information on this gun. However, it is still in doubt that the rib on the gun is the rib that was installed at Meriden. I have never seen a regular production Parker GHE with a Vulcan rib. I have seen higher grade guns with Vulcan barrels, but not with higher grade barrel flat markings like this one has. The poor joint between the sub rib and the main rib is what is known as a "clue" that the rib has been replaced.

[Bill Murphy]

I guess I should explain that the Vulcan ribs on higher grade guns that I have seen have been factory rebarrelled guns, not guns that have had new ribs installed. I have never seen a gun with the scenario of rib and barrel flat marking of the gun in question. It's still a neat gun for about $1039.00 until the mystery is explained. It is beyond belief that the poor rib installation was done at Parker Brothers or Remington. No Remington repair codes eliminate the last possibility. We have not seen a new rib with a mismatched logo factory installed on a Parker, ever.

[Eric Eis]

I just saw this post and I am wondering why people are even questioning this gun, many of you have seen my new in box skeet gun in the same serial number range, and the case colors are a maybe on the sides ( real maybe) but look at the watertable that tells the story it's a flat "no" . The gun has been redone and as Bill points out the "barrel rib"...?

[Bill Murphy]

Ed got a great buy on the gun at somewhere north of $1800.00. It's a great gun.

[Chuck Bishop]

Yup, Opening Day is correct. The watertable will tell the tale. It always has a distinct pattern when original.