Federal 7/8 loads?

[Gary Weaver]

Anyone know the PSI of the Federal 7/8 box ammo? (think they were around 1200 fps)
i shot some RST's 2 1/2 - 1oz 8's - 1170 fps and some Federal 7/8 loads and they feel the same.. wondering if they are safe to shoot in my Damascus barrels..
(12ga).

[Paul Harm]

You wouldn't blow up a damascus barrel gun with modern loads [ assuming they're safe to shoot ]. And you can't really tell how much pressure a shell has by recoil. In the formula for recoil there's nothing in it about pressure. Pressure is speed [ FPS ] times the weight of the powder, wad, and shot. Most guys like to keep pressure down around 7000psi or less in their old guns out of respect for the stocks and so they won't shoot the gun loose. It took Sherman Bell 32,000psi to blow a damascus barrel gun. Modern shells are usually no more than 11 to 13,000psi at the most. That's why we reload - to keep pressures down. The high pressure does nothing but cycle autos and deform shot.

[Gary Weaver]

i understand that Paul.. so do you think the 7/8 loads are ok? the recoil is not bad and you can hit the birds, not like the 980's that winchester sells that are pretty slow.. the 980's pressures are around 6000.. (ok for skeet but thats about it i think).
I understand about loading your own now.. and thats a major reason, that and the cost of buying the specialty shells like RST's (even though i like them and they work well) It just gets too expensive if you shoot a lot and i do..

[Bill Murphy]

Paul, how do you explain the fact that loads with the identical weight of the three components you mention and identical velocity have widely different advertised pressures in loading manuals? By the way, Gary, the new Federal 7/8 ounce Top Guns are the best thing brought out by the big three since smokeless powder shells.

[Daryl Corona]

Try the Fiocchi trainer 7/8oz. trainer loads. Even softer than the Federals.

[Fred Verry]

Bill, I have noticed that the same hulls loaded with the same weight of shot, same powder and weight of powder charge vary considerably in pressure depending on the wad used. Even wads of the same weight cause greatly different pressure results. Perhaps some of the factors explaining this would be differing efficiency of the gas seal and blow by, different "slickness" and drag coefficients and surface area of contact between the wad and barrel wall, to name a few.

[Fred Verry]

I also neglected to mention the amount of wad compression pressure and crimp also cause quite a bit of variation.

[John Campbell]

Gary:
If you are concerned about the pressure of these Federal loads, there is a simple way to find out exactly what it is. Phone Federal. They will be happy to tell you.

[Paul Harm]

Gary, I think Fred and Kensal both gave good advice.

[Gary Weaver]

I've been phoning Federal for 3 days, left call back numbers each time and no reply.. doesnt seem like that question is that difficult.. guess i was wrong.
Still waiting.. :whistle:
Maybe someone else could try calling them and report back.. maybe they'll have better luck than me..
1-800-322-2342 - choose opt 4 Good luck.

[Jerry Harlow]

Gary,

A couple of years ago I wrote to Federal complaining that they had dropped their most popular buckshot size for both the 3.5" 10 gauge and 12 gauge, that being the Premium Number 1s. Stores were always sold out of this size but always had an abundance of 00 Buck. Everyone I know used this size, 27 pellets compared to the 18 in a 00. Shooting at running deer, it made a big difference.

They never felt I was a worthy enough customer, so they never responded. So I load my own now and they don't cost over $2 a shell like the Federals. They apparently just do not care what the customers think. You would think a company that made just ammo would try to be better than their competition.

[charlie cleveland]

jerry i would like to have your recipe for those 10 ga no 1 buck shells... i shoot the 7/8 ounce federal shells in the 20 ga damascus barrels all the time.. charlie

[Jerry Harlow]

jerry i would like to have your recipe for those 10 ga no 1 buck shells... i shoot the 7/8 ounce federal shells in the 20 ga damascus barrels all the time.. charlie

Charlie,

From the Alliant Powder Reloaders' Guide page 8 (an old one)

Remington SP 10 gauge 3.5 inch Hull

2.25 ounces of lead (I weigh them out, use nickel plated number 1s. Sometimes 27, sometimes 26) I also make a nice duplex load with number 1s and number 4s.

41 grains Blue Dot

Win 209 primer

SP10 wad

1165 fps

10,500 psi

A deer killer. :)

[charlie cleveland]

thanks jerry i will load this load up soon got to get me some no 1 buck shoti m out at the moment... will this load work good to 50 yards on medium size deer... charlie

[Jerry Harlow]

Charlie,

If it shoots a tight enough pattern I would say yes to 50 yards. But it is not a fast load at 1165 fps. A big old deer, probably no.

[Gary Weaver]

Federal called back...
the nice man on the phone said sorry it took so long to get back to me, but he had to go to balistics to get that information.. so here it is..

The 7/8 #8 1200fps Loads, number TG12EL have between 7500-8000 "max" presure.

He said thats quite a bit "lower" than their "normal" loads that are around 10,500 pressures. I think hes probably talking about the 1 1/8oz loads.. around the same FPS..

So there ya have it.. its a bit higher than i was hoping for.. what do you guys think..?
I know for steel barrels they are ok, what about Damascus?
I think the 7500 is probably ok... not so sure about 8000..
Gary

[John Campbell]

You should be just fine. Imagine how much of that 10,500 stuff has been shot in old doubles so far!

[Paul Harm]

Reloaders like to shoot for something under 7 to 7500psi. Don't know where that number came from. I try to keep under 7000psi - why - guess because it sounds good , or maybe because I shoot them so much it's less strain on the action and old wood. Kensal said it all, how many shells went through those old guns that were " magnums " and didn't blow up. I'm not saying to tempt fate, but 7500 to 8000psi isn't high. I'm sure you'll be fine. But you know Gary, we are on the reloading forum, so there's a easy way to fix your problem - start reloading and quite worrying about factory ammo.

[Bill Murphy]

The new Federal 7/8 ounce loads at 1200fps, now that Federal proclaims that they are 7500 to 8000 PSI, are the greatest thing we have found to shoot in any gun for high volume 12 gauge shooting. For everything else, RST is the thing to use. By the way, the Federal load is not exactly new. They have made a low velocity 7/8 ounce load for cowboy action shooting for years. However, it has been about impossible to find on the wholesale market. By the way, have you ever heard of a cowboy gun blowing up because of use with store bought shells?

[Mark Garrett]

There is one way to know for sure exactly what they are .send them in to be tested , Probably cost you about $50.00 bucks . If where me and I wanted to shoot them all the time , Thats what I'd do .There is only one problem with that if Federal decides to change their load you will not know it .

Like Paul said the only way to know for sure is to reload.

[Jerry Harlow]

Reloading is the only way to go.

24 GRAMS IS .85 OUNCES
7/8 OUNCE IS .875 OUNCES

I REALLY LIKE THIS LOAD. FROM THE IMR LOADING BOOK (2007, PAGE 38).

3700 PSI !!
1200 FPS
WINCHESTER AA
24 GRAMS SHOT (.85 OZ)
24.5 GRAINS SR7625
WIN. 209
CB1100-12 WAD (Claybusters)

[Dave Suponski]

Jerry, How can a load with 24.5 grains of SR 7625 equal 3700 psi?

[Rick Losey]

Jerry, How can a load with 24.5 grains of SR 7625 equal 3700 psi?

I agree - sounds incredible Dave

but the current load chart says the same thing - page 11

http://www.imrpowder.com/pdf/IMR_shotshell.pdf

[Jerry Harlow]

Jerry, How can a load with 24.5 grains of SR 7625 equal 3700 psi?

Dave,

It is just the properties and burn rate of SR 7625 I guess with so little shot. Dan Morgan who works on Damascus barrels told me about the load when I had some bad dents removed from a Damascus tube and I was down to .022 thickness at that spot. If you get the IMR load data book there are over a dozen loads with 24 grams of shot from 3000 psi up to the highest of 5400 psi for a humming along 1250 fps.

When I shoot 12 gauge AA hulls in my 10 gauges using Gauge Mates, regular loads ruin the hulls where the cases split in the little gap of the Gauge Mates. When I use the 24 gram 3500 psi loads, the hulls do not split in the Gauge Mates. Thus I can tell they are very low pressure. I can't copy the book at home but I am sure someone else has the IMR book. Do you have one by chance? Look at the Winchester AA loads.

[Dave Suponski]

Thank You Gents, I load alot of 7625 in my 16 gauge and light 12 gauge loads. I will get out my IMR loading manual and check it out. Maybe I will load a few just for the heck of it.

[Gary Weaver]

After about a million members on this forum told me to start reloading... :-)
I finally jumped in.. picked up a used Mec Jr from a member on this forum.. so will be reloading now. in the process of acquiring the components now.. and doing a lot of reading (research). Going to be using 2 1/2 hulls left over from all the RST's I've shot. Got the short kit for the 2 1/2's and a recipe for approx 6500 psi for 1150 fps. 1oz 8's. that will get me started and i can experiment further down the road as i learn more.
Thanks to all for your input.

[Bruce Day]

Another source of short hulls for those thinking it necessary are these AA 20ga hulls from Winchester.

[Paul Harm]

Alright Gary - you came over to the dark side. You won't be sorry. Next it'll be a 650 or Grabber, maybe a 9000H in your future.