8 gauge

[charlie cleveland]

i was having dinner at a restraunt yesterday and a old friend came in and sat at my table and it was not long before we had a fine discuscion going aboutfirearms..my friend is not a shotgun person and mostly we talked about mauser rifles and swedish 6.5 s he was customizing one..finally i said do you shoot shotguns any he said very little..i told him i shot quite a lot especially the old 8 ga...he said that thing must kick like a mule and i told him it was much more pleasant to shoot than most 3 1/2 in 12 ga s...then he said why in the world would any body want such a large shotgun for..i replied him being a rifle guy why would anyone want anything bigger than the 22 rimfire.. charlie

[CraigThompson]

Well sir I'm a rifle and shotgun person !

I likes my 10 gauge shotguns as well as the 16's and I want an 8 gauge or several in the worst way !

I likes my rifles be it a 204 Ruger or my 416 REM MAG or 444 levergun !

I think it's safe to say I like most EVERYTHING !

I can't think of a "quality made" rifle or shotgun I truely DISLIKE !

[wayne goerres]

I think it would be pretty hard for any of us to turn down any firearm.

[Dave Noreen]

For nearly 100 years we have gotten along just fine with six shotgun sizes -- 10-, 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauges and .410-bore. Probably all we really need is the 10-, 16- and 28-gauges.

By 100 years ago we really had all the centerfire rifle cartridges we have any use for. Everything we've gotten since then is just manufacturers trying to sell newguns. My choice of six centerfire rifle cartridges would be the .22 WCF which morphed into the .22 Hornet, the .22 Savage High Power, the 7x57mm Mauser, the .30 govt. 06, the .375 H&H, and some good lever action and autoloader cartridge like the .300 Savage, though it didn't come along until 1920. Guess I'm discounting those rimmed cartridges for those 19th century, tubular magazine, Winchesters and Marlins!!

[ed good]

the advent of high quality, high power optics necessitated the need for ultra accurate rifle cartridges...such as the .222 Remington. when everything is just right, one can actually shoot five shots into one hole at 100 yards!

[Bill Murphy]

I'm not much of a rifle guy, so I have not had many one holers that stayed that way over a period of years. One is a pre Remington .22 Varminter on a #6 FN Mauser single shot action. Another is an early Ruger Model 77 in 7MM Remington Magnum. Varminter groups I have in my files are as small as .025 inches at 100 yards. The Ruger targets have been superimposed over each other since the seventies and the master 100 yard target is still just about an inch. The Redfield 4X scope has never been adjusted. I think I could get along with these two rifles and my M2 Springfield .22 Sporter that will also put them in under an inch if I use the Wolf Match Target ammunition that it likes.

[CraigThompson]

the advent of high quality, high power optics necessitated the need for ultra accurate rifle cartridges...such as the .222 Remington. when everything is just right, one can actually shoot five shots into one hole at 100 yards!


I've shot ALOT of targets from the bench and only twice have I shot groups less then a tenth of an inch (meaning the size of the group after subtracting the bullet diameter). And the second time I did it I was shooting a heavy barreled 222 REM . It was a factory rifle as a matter of fact although I had the trigger pull down to less then a pound .

[CraigThompson]

I think it would be pretty hard for any of us to turn down any firearm.

I'd have no problem turnng down one of those Urban throw away Hi Point pistols . Think they have a MSRP of about $140 :eek:

[Bill Murphy]

Since I didn't get any reaction to my last post, I won't tell you about the 1.97" 600 yard target I saw this morning. Yes, it was a Parker guy who shot it. Obviously, he has interests in shooting beyond Parkers. Maybe a reread of the "target" would be in order.

[ed good]

bill: extraordinary! he must have been shooting an a1 special.

[Craig Larter]

I am a shotgun guy but love to shoot my 45-90 Winchester single shot Creedmore at long range with vernier sights----THUMP! Big Fun----I am still looking for my 8ga----should have bought one at the auction in NH last year---oh well.

[wayne goerres]

You are quite correct. Watching gallon jugs explode at 500 yards when shot with a sharps is indeed a lot of fun.

[charlie cleveland]

never have got to see the sharps fired it must be quite a site to see a milk jug explode at 500 yards..but i did see a parker 8 ga. shooting a pumpkin ball load at 25 yards shoot a 5 gallon can filled with water..all i can say is quite impressive... charlie

[CraigThompson]

never have got to see the sharps fired it must be quite a site to see a milk jug explode at 500 yards..but i did see a parker 8 ga. shooting a pumpkin ball load at 25 yards shoot a 5 gallon can filled with water..all i can say is quite impressive... charlie

My friend that passed a couple months back had a rather nice C Sharps in 45-100 . Think he had it built about 10 years ago . He had some issues with getting it to shoot and asked me to help him some about 4 years ago . To be honest that was my first and only experience with a Sharps be it an original or an American made reproduction . I got him shooting well enough to suit him from the bench out to 200 meters but that was as far as I went !

He also had an original Remington Hepburn in 40-70 SS that was a blast and I did the load work and casting for that one as well . I would hands down rather have an original Hepburn . But I'll never pony up the cash for either , to many other things I'd rather have then a $3000 BPCR .

[Bill Zachow]

Bill, how many shots in the sub 2" group and what was the cartridge and shooting iron?

[ed good]

craig: there are similar guns available for much less money...such as:

a ruger #1 chambered in 45-70.

an original springfield 1884/88 in excellent condition.

both are wonderful shooters and can be purchased for under a grand.

one does not have to spend big bucks to own fine guns.

[Bill Murphy]

Zachow, it was a five shot group, scored 3X on a 600 yard target, can't remember the score. He is a bench rest record holder and his Dad is a double gun guy and a neighbor. It is a 6 of some kind and not sure of the action, barrel, or maker. I told you I'm not much of a rifle guy. I asked if the wind was blowing hard that day. I think he got the joke.

[CraigThompson]

craig: there are similar guns available for much less money...such as:

a ruger #1 chambered in 45-70.

an original springfield 1884/88 in excellent condition.

both are wonderful shooters and can be purchased for under a grand.

one does not have to spend big bucks to own fine guns.

I'm well aware of the Ruger #1 as I have several just not in 45-70 . I also have an original Trapdoor that I shoot occasionally .

However for a true BPCR a Shiloh or C Sharps or quite possibly a nice old original Sharps , Rollingblock or Hepburn is the ONLY way to go . And up until recently Dave Higginbothoms Lone Star Rifles .

Just so you know I deal in this stuff as a small buisness everyday .

[ed good]

then, you should know better than me.

[wayne goerres]

They can be quite accurate especialy for a design that is almost 140 years old.

[George Lander]

Tom Selleck in the movie set in Australia (I can't remember the name) made quite an impressive shot out to what seemed like a half a mile with a Sharps with iron sights. Of course that was Hollywood. Now I remember, It was "Quigley down under"

Best Regards, George

[Bill Zachow]

Thanks. Bill. Extrapolating to 2400 yards would put his shooting on a man sized target at that range. Close to the longest sniper kill record in Afghanistan by a Canadian shooter.

[CraigThompson]

Tom Selleck in the movie set in Australia (I can't remember the name) made quite an impressive shot out to what seemed like a half a mile with a Sharps with iron sights. Of course that was Hollywood. Now I remember, It was "Quigley down under"

Best Regards, George


Hence the reason they have the "Quigley BPCR Shoot" every year in Forsyth Montana !

[CraigThompson]

then, you should know better than me.

I am quite sure I do !

But thanks just the same for your unwarrented comments .

[wayne goerres]

One mile is 1760 yards thus 1/2 a mile roufly 860 yards. Quite doable. The lo0ngest recorded shot with a sharps is refured to as the Billy Dixon shot. Billy shot an indian off his horse at 1700 yards with a big 50. Distance was survayed bu the U S calvery.

[CraigThompson]

One mile is 1760 yards thus 1/2 a mile roufly 860 yards. Quite doable. The lo0ngest recorded shot with a sharps is refured to as the Billy Dixon shot. Billy shot an indian off his horse at 1700 yards with a big 50. Distance was survayed bu the U S calvery.

In the last 15 or so years Mike Venturino was in Arizona or New Mexico somewhere and he happened to have a couple Army Engineer guys I think they were . Anyway they did some calculations and told him the elevation to use on his Sharps and he made a shot that was considered to be very similar to the Billy Dixon shot .

I shot the Hi Power silhouette range at Ridgeway PA once with peep sighted lever action rifles using cast bullets and let me just say 500 meters (550 yards) with an iron sighted rifle is about it for me !
Suffice to say I doubt if I would have hit what I did without the guy that was spotting for me . That day I used a circa 1952 Marlin 336SC in 35 REM with a Lyman peep and factory front sight with my home cast RCBS 35-200GC bullets pushed with SR4756 or SR7625 can't remmmeber which ! Can't say I hit them all but I did hit a few .

[wayne goerres]

It takes a much heavyer cast bullet to be effective at long ranges with these old guns. From 500grs to 650grs in 50cal. When the us military ran the first test in the 45/70 trapdoor the range was at 1700 yards (correct me if I am wrong) at 9' targets made of 2*4 pine boards with good penatration (as noted by the review board). They must have pointed the barrel up at least fourty five deg.

[George Lander]

I am reminded of the shot made by Gunny Carlos Hathcock aka "White Feather" in the 'Nam where he killed an NVA General at something over one mile with a converted 50 caliber BMG. Quite a feat for that time.

Best Regards, George

[CraigThompson]

It takes a much heavyer cast bullet to be effective at long ranges with these old guns. From 500grs to 650grs in 50cal. When the us military ran the first test in the 45/70 trapdoor the range was at 1700 yards (correct me if I am wrong) at 9' targets made of 2*4 pine boards with good penatration (as noted by the review board). They must have pointed the barrel up at least fourty five deg.

I believe the elevaton you mentioed is correct . I'm not sure if Venturino used a 45-70 or something else . But if I'm not mistaken he shot at a buffalo silhouette .

[wayne goerres]

I wasnt refuring to mikes test I was refuring to the original US military test.They used a square nine foot target made out of 2 by 4s. There was a group of shooters that got together after the movie quigly down under was made and tryed to duplicate the shoots in the movie. As best as I can remember they were able to do so useing the original gun that they used in the movie.That ngun was not the one you see tom carrying in the movie.It was a heavy barreled gun that they used to teach tom with.