Barrels

[RandallTlachac]

Help I am looking at a Parker barrel marked Vulcan Steel and serial number is 62XXX, this appears to be fluid steel, and the manufacture date based on the ParkerGuns.org is 1890. Is this date of manufacture correct? Would this be Whitworth steel?

[Bill Murphy]

No, it is not Whitworth. A Vulcan Steel barrel with a 62,000 serial number would be a set of barrels retrofitted to an earlier gun. Factory built Vulcan Steel guns came later than 62,000. If you would give us the full serial number, we can tell you the exact configuration of the gun when it was originally made. The original configuration of the gun is probably Twist Steel or Damascus Steel.

[RandallTlachac]

you may find this interesting, the barrel rib states "Parker Brothers Makers, Meridian Conn. Vulcan Steel". The sn on the left underside of the barrel is 64,796. It is on a gun with sn 102XXX. I have the shipping log from Parker, NY indicating the gun was ordered in early 1902 and shipped in August 1902. So the barrel was probably from another gun, but can you tell me the year of manufacture and the original configuration?

[RandallTlachac]

the number "2" is on the bottom of the lug under the barrel

[edgarspencer]

First post you said 62xxx then you said 64796. So, can we guess you mean 62796 ? If that's the case......................I'll give you a moment to go and find your glasses........................... Then that gun was an 1890 Damascus barreled 12ga. D grade (DH). Now the replacement barrels, made for the DH are on some mysterious gun whose serial number ends in XXX, and presumably, the 1890 DH receiver is lost, but hopefully mated back up with it's original Damascus barrels. Have I got it right? Hopefully the xxx gun is a VH so at least the barrel legend matches the grade. Is there a V stamped on the water table? (the flat horizontal surface which mate to the barrel) the 2 stamped on the bottom of the barrel lug is the frame size.

[edgarspencer]

BTW, there's no way to tell when the Vulcan barrels were fitted to the 1890 gun, because Parker replaced barrels were marked for the gun they were made for. The Stock book for the original gun may have an entry indicating when this happened, but you would have to order a PGCA letter for the missing gun.

[RandallTlachac]

With glasses on the barrel sn is 64796 .. it surely does not look like damascus. The water table is stamped with P and sn 109209. I do have a research letter which states the original order was Twist Steel. However the barrel sn would have matched the other sn in any gun issued from Parker in 1902, correct? So this barrel must have been placed on at a later date. So I am puzzled to see if a Vulcan steel barrel could have an sn of 67796 and not be damascus. Any ideas regarding this puzzle?

[edgarspencer]

Randall, When a Gun was sent back to Parker for new barrels, the new barrels would be marked with the Serial Number of the gun for which they were made.
You've now thrown in another SN, 67796, and I'm assuming it's one of the other previous two, which were both Damascus barreled guns. 62796 was a 12ga., and 64796 was a 10ga.

It would have been customary to re-barrel a gun with barrels of the type currently being supplied on a gun. Ordinarily, if a DH was sent back for steel replacement barrels, Parker would supply Titanic barrels, but for the sake of economy, the customer may have asked for Vulcan Steel barrels. You gun, a PH, would have originally had either Twist barrels, or if they were fluid steel, Parker Steel barrels. Whatever the case, your gun is made up from replacement barrels from another gun. In the end, if it locks up properly, it doesn't matter that much.

[RandallTlachac]

Edgar - thank you for staying with me on this...yes the barrel is 62796 and the other gun parts are for a PH. Is there anyway to tell the year of manufacture for the barrels? During what period were Vulcan Steel barrels manufactured?

[edgarspencer]

The VH gun, with Vulcan Steel barrels, came out just before the turn of the (20th) century, and they were made right to the end. They were, if I'm not mistaken, the first steel barrels offered. The V grade was considered an 0 grade, where the P was called grade 1.

[Brian Dudley]

To tell what year the barrels were made, just look up the serial number that is on the side of the locking lug. If by chance you have a serial number that predates the advent of Vulcan steel, then you are looking at some different scenario, like a barrel that has had components replaced. Such as the lug or rib. IE: replacing the top rib on a set of twist barrels with a Vulcan rib. Or if the barrels have been mono blocked, who knows what might have been done.

[Ed Blake]

You said you have the shipping log. I take it you sent for a letter from the PGCA?

[edgarspencer]

To tell what year the barrels were made, just look up the serial number that is on the side of the locking lug. If by chance you have a serial number that predates the advent of Vulcan steel, then you are looking at some different scenario, like a barrel that has had components replaced. Such as the lug or rib. IE: replacing the top rib on a set of twist barrels with a Vulcan rib. Or if the barrels have been mono blocked, who knows what might have been done.

Brian, what you're saying assumes the barrels are original, but if a gun, made in in 1890, is sent back in 1920 for a new set of barrels, the barrels will be serial numbered to the gun, so what you're saying would lead someone to believe those 1920 barrels were made in 1890.

[RandallTlachac]

It would appear that Brian and Edgar have identified the most likely scenario, that is, this 1902 gun which originally came w twist steel barrels, ws refitted w a vulcan steel barrel and a lug from a 1891 gun.

[RandallTlachac]

Thanks to you all

[David Noble]

My brain hurts. :confused:

[Brian Dudley]

Brian, what you're saying assumes the barrels are original, but if a gun, made in in 1890, is sent back in 1920 for a new set of barrels, the barrels will be serial numbered to the gun, so what you're saying would lead someone to believe those 1920 barrels were made in 1890.

Very true. I was just exploring other possibilities. I would like to see good phots of the gun.

[edgarspencer]

If the original, now missing, gun was rebarreled by Parker, I sincerely doubt they would have used the original lug section. It was far easier to fit a new set of barrels to the gun, than completely disassemble the old set. They had unfinished barrel sets on hand and it was a simple matter to install them.
Since there were almost 80,000 VH grade guns made, predominantly in 2 frame 12 bore, there were plenty of barrel sets out there. I can see reusing the locking lugs if you were going from Top lever to Hammerless, Lifter to Top Lever, or whatever, but not hammerless to hammerless.

[Brian Dudley]

I was thinking more in the case that a set of barrels was assembled aftermarket using a factory lug and rib. But that is likely not the case.

I had a set like this that was aftearket and an original lug. With s/n not matching the gun was used.

[Bill Murphy]

Brian, I have a disassembled set of barrels with the original lugs, rib, but with ruined tubes. It couldn't be that easy to build those lugs into a new barrel set because Kirk Merrington did not think it was an easy project and estimated thousands of dollars for the end cost. Do you know someone who can retube my lugs into a working barrel set for a rare Parker?

[Brian Dudley]

I do not know of anyone now. The set I had was made by Vickers. The lug on hem was seialized to a set of Damascus barrels. And they were not mono blocked.

How much heat did it take to get te locking lug freed from the tubes? I have yet been able to get a locking lug freed. Everything else comes apart fine.

[edgarspencer]

The ribs are soft soldered to the tubes, but the tubes are silver soldered to the locking lug lump first, and in the unfinished condition. That takes a lot of heat, and I daresay it would be near impossible to save the tubes after that much heat to get them apart. (but why would you even be taking it apart if you wanted to use those tubes?)

[Bill Murphy]

Edgar, mine are already apart. I want them made into a barrel set. The tubes are ruined and yards away from the lugs and ribs. "Apart" Now I want "Put Together". Anyone know who is willing to do this? I know there are people who can do it, because new shotguns are made by the hundreds every day.

[edgarspencer]

Hambrusch, in Austria, used to be quite reasonable. I had a set of double rifles barrels made by them a l...o...n...g time ago, and if I recall, they were under $2000. The logistics are beyond my patience level now. The rifle was pre-1898(winkwink), so I just mailed it to them, and 8 months later it was back, finished and regulated. They do chopper lump and mono block, but as you've got the lug lump, half their job is already done.
The gunsmith who worked for our mutual friend knew everyone at Hambrusch, so I had him "translate" for me. I believe he worked for them before coming here.