Value Going Forward

[Mark Callanan]

Would like a few thoughts on collecting parkers

Taking all things into the picture

Are you better off collecting a high grade DHE or a BHE in a lower grade for future value
I would like to try and reach for a collector type Parker and was wondering about future value
or the best one to collect
Thanks for any thoughts

[edgarspencer]

Are you meaning "Condition" when you say grade? A DHE is a grade 3, a BHE, a grade 5.

[Mark Callanan]

Yes I am sorry I wasn't clear
Say a DHE in 80% vrs a BHE in 50%

[Brian Dudley]

I think condition is everything when talking collector value. Obviously a 50% BHE will have a higher dollar value than a better condition gun of a lower grade. But, condition is what drives the prices up higher than run of the mill guns.

When talking about "investment" quality guns. It is all about getting a gun in the highest condition for the least money. Something that can make money on an immediate flip is bound to make you more if you wait a while and preserve the condition of the gun.

[rufus thames]

Though question
Price or the love of pictular gun how she fits your shoulder guns history guns deminsions etc. It all depends on the individual.
My thoughts
Rufus

[Pete Lester]

I do not mean to be flip with this answer.

Learn what original condition is.

Learn what is rare and uncommon.

Learn what is high desirable to collectors.

Learn what current market value is based on those factors.

When you know these things you will know the value of a particular gun, whether it is a deal, or regardless of what you pay if it will appreciate.

Collecting Parker's requires an education, education usually costs some money because the best way to learn about them is to own them as well as study them.

One last piece of advice, buy guns that fit and "speak to you", guns that you will enjoy owning and using, don't look at them first as an investment. Look at them as something will use and enjoy for a long time. Get good advice so that you don't grossly overpay or buy something that is not original or messed up. If you do that you will satisfied from day one forward with any Parker no matter what.

Just my .02

[Robin Lewis]

I would advise you to do a little research on past auction results. I think you will find that small gauge Parker guns have had the most consistent price increases.

[edgarspencer]

If you're comparing two otherwise similar guns (i.e. both are same gauge, frame size and barrel length), and both are original, Then Rarity can equal, or exceed condition. There were less than 1200 BH (E) guns, but over 18,000 DH(E) guns. In fact, there may be more 'high condition' D grade than all the B grades
A high condition DHE in a small bore may fetch more than a lesser condition BHE 12 bore, so you need to factor all the common features.
In you're in it to make money, you need to buy with your head. If you buy to own and enjoy, let your heart play a bigger role. Keep in mind also, that some barrel lengths come in, and go out of fashion. 30 years ago no one wanted long barrel guns, now the 26" guns move much more slowly.

[Bill Murphy]

Historically, high condition and high grade guns have outperformed shooter condition guns. Smallbore and eight gauge guns have outperformed guns in other gauges. Of course, some people will just not buy high condition or high grade guns, nor will they pay the price for smallbore or eight gauge guns. That's OK, because the basic rule of gun collecting is "The profit is made on the buy, not the appreciation." In other words, collectors who are interested in the bottom line do not pay retail. If you are not buying in the top end of condition and grade, you must buy your average guns at a price where the appreciation is on the front end. In other words, if you buy a $1000 gun for $750, your profit is already built into the deal. All future appreciation is gravy. It is up to you to decide which group you want to be in.

[John Dallas]

In my experience, investing in commodities like guns, fly rods, cars is a tough way to go. If you take into account the time required to become knowledgeable, the costs involved (ie gun safes or garages) and the discount your family will probably incur to sell your treasures when you pass, there must be better alternatives.
On the other hand, it ain't much fun to sit in your man cave and fondle a stock certificate

[Mark Callanan]

I do not mean to be flip with this answer.

Learn what original condition is.

Learn what is rare and uncommon.

Learn what is high desirable to collectors.

Learn what current market value is based on those factors.

When you know these things you will know the value of a particular gun, whether it is a deal, or regardless of what you pay if it will appreciate.

Collecting Parker's requires an education, education usually costs some money because the best way to learn about them is to own them as well as study them.

One last piece of advice, buy guns that fit and "speak to you", guns that you will enjoy owning and using, don't look at them first as an investment. Look at them as something will use and enjoy for a long time. Get good advice so that you don't grossly overpay or buy something that is not original or messed up. If you do that you will satisfied from day one forward with any Parker no matter what.

Just my .02
Peter
As always thanks for your answer
Please look at the question I asked
see you soon at mad bury

Mark

[Mark Callanan]

In my experience, investing in commodities like guns, fly rods, cars is a tough way to go. If you take into account the time required to become knowledgeable, the costs involved (ie gun safes or garages) and the discount your family will probably incur to sell your treasures when you pass, there must be better alternatives.
On the other hand, it ain't much fun to sit in your man cave and fondle a stock certificate

Amen to that
The older you get the joy you enjoy holding and looking at you investments

[Bill Zachow]

Buy rare, buy condition and buy early. This applies to all collector guns. The biggest "bang for the buck" is in classic Winchesters for rifles, Colts for pistols and Parkers for classic double barreled shotguns. The price or value of top condition "field" grade guns tends to be higher on Winchesters and Colts than Parkers due to the much greater demand. For every Parker collector there are at least 100 Winchester collectors and 50 Colt collectors. High grade, special ordered guns from all three makers tend to be very similarly priced or valued. As Bill said. small bore and large bore (.410, 28, and 8) parkers tend to be the highest priced when same grades are compared. The same tends to hold true for rifles and pistols. A 50/110 Winchester 86 is worth at least 3 or 4 times as much as a .33. Find an original .22 single action army and you have value multiple times over a .38. The reason is the same for all three makes. They all made a lot fewer big uns and little uns.

[Bill Murphy]

Parkers, Parkers, Parkers. Winchesters and Colts are a different world with way different rates of appreciation. Leave them out of this discussion.

[Bill Zachow]

Why? Very few of us only collect Parkers and the same rules of valuation apply to all makes of collectable firearms.

[ed good]

when collecting guns for investment, there are two magic words:

Colt and Winchester.

shotguns are traditional not good investments.

[David Dwyer]

This is a great discussion with comments by some very knowledgeable Parkerites. I completely agree with Pete,Brian,Robin,Edgar and Bill and suggest you really study their statements. Personally I have found small gage high conditions Parkers that I have owned have appreciated the most, by far. I think it is very difficult to make a decent profit on guns purchased from dealers. I would purchase the highest grade, high condition small bore that I could afford but condition over grade. The other thing is be patient.
JMHO
David

[Bill Murphy]

Of course, Zachow is right. Putting Colts and Winchesters into the discussion will educate us all. But they are so different from shotguns in that almost any special order feature or almost any interesting provenance will put their value into the stratosphere. Not so much with shotguns unless the provenance is off the scale.

[Mark Callanan]

David
So a VHE in 80% would be better then a DHE in 60% all other things equal?
Also I agree listen to all that try and help
Thats why I asked here
Where could you get better answers
We are lucky to have you all

Thanks….

[edgarspencer]

So a VHE in 80% would be better then a DHE in 60% all other things equal?
.

While finding a VH in 80% condition may be somewhat difficult, being the 'working' gun, almost 80,000 V grade hammerless guns compared to less than 18,000 D grade hammerless gun would still make a D in 60% worth more to me than an 80% V. Also, the distinction in quantifying condition is often very fuzzy, at best

[Craig Larter]

The pecking order of vintage shotgun valuation is in my experience----Condition first, bore size second, grade third, specs fourth, provenance fifth. If I was doing this as an investment (which I am not) I would buy 410 and 28ga near mint original condition Parkers in the lower grades and just hold them for 25 years. You MAY make a decent profit for your heirs but what the heck fun is that??
I will stick with buying the guns that interest me---it seems like much more fun.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Collecting Parkers always look for the unusual, the piece may not be pristine but the rarity as some have already spoke about will be what it is priced on! and on restoration I feel if the car is dirty wash it! Let everyone see what it looked like when near new. Gary

[Dennis V. Nix]

I believe in buying guns in as great a condition as I can find and afford. I also buy guns that I really like and will use. That way if the guns go up in value I have benefited monetarily. If the guns do not go up in value I still have a gun I cherish and take great pleasure in using to take game. Most likely I will never own a Parker higher than a D grade but that D grade will mean as much to me as the A, B and C grades some of you own. It is all in the eyes of the beholder.

Dennis

[John Dallas]

One difficulty with collectible guns is forgery. Winchesters and Lugers are notorious for being "Improved". Parkers - Not so much and with the paper trail available on many Parkers, frauds are more difficult. I had an acquaintance who had blank paper allegedly from the Cody Museum. He could "Letter" anything you wanted.

[CraigThompson]

Collecting Parker's requires an education, education usually costs some money because the best way to learn about them is to own them as well as study them.

One last piece of advice, buy guns that fit and "speak to you", guns that you will enjoy owning and using, don't look at them first as an investment. Look at them as something will use and enjoy for a long time. Get good advice so that you don't grossly overpay or buy something that is not original or messed up. If you do that you will satisfied from day one forward with any Parker no matter what.

Just my .02

I would say those two things are pretty decent advice for collecting any gun thats in the thousands of dollars be it 1 thousand or 100 thousand !

[CraigThompson]

One difficulty with collectible guns is forgery. Winchesters and Lugers are notorious for being "Improved". Parkers - Not so much and with the paper trail available on many Parkers, frauds are more difficult. I had an acquaintance who had blank paper allegedly from the Cody Museum. He could "Letter" anything you wanted.

My pop had a rather nice DWM WWI Luger someone had brought back after WWII and he got rather cheap when he was a kid !

Had the correct holster two seriel numbered mags with the wooden bottom knobs etc . And when I was about 18 or so he traded it for a signed Pennsylvania Rifle of about 1835-1845 vintage . What he got was okay !

But later I had thoughts of getting him another Luger to replace that one . After looking around for awhile and checking alot of the so called good Luger dealers I was scared to death to buy one of those things !

Education in ones desired field is priceless and the ability to get good info on something you're not up on from someone you can trust who is up on the item you're not is also priceless !

[David Dwyer]

Mark
I completely agree with Craig and somewhat disagree with Gary. When you decide to sell a Parker you want the gun to be desired by the maximum number of potential purchasers. There are definitely those that seek rarity but many more that seek condition. I have a fantastic VHE 28ga that I feel is a great investment and also have a fantastic DHE 28ga , both in about the same 90% condition. The ROI on the DHE is better as there are more people looking for a graded gun than the VHE ,but the initial investment on the DHE was greater.
Importantly , I just treasure owning both guns and would not consider selling either. It is nice knowing the profit is there but if that is your main objective.
consider some MLPs, not Parkers
David

[Mark Callanan]

Mark
I completely agree with Craig and somewhat disagree with Gary. When you decide to sell a Parker you want the gun to be desired by the maximum number of potential purchasers. There are definitely those that seek rarity but many more that seek condition. I have a fantastic VHE 28ga that I feel is a great investment and also have a fantastic DHE 28ga , both in about the same 90% condition. The ROI on the DHE is better as there are more people looking for a graded gun than the VHE ,but the initial investment on the DHE was greater.
Importantly , I just treasure owning both guns and would not consider selling either. It is nice knowing the profit is there but if that is your main objective.
consider some MLPs, not Parkers
David

This is what I was thinking
I never buy with the thought of selling right away I buy them because I love what they are ,their history ,and just love to hold and look at them
But I like the thought that beyond all that they will go up in value in the long term so when they do go away their is value
So its like enjoy and make money in the long term
By the way all thanks for the valued thoughts ....

Mark

[CraigThompson]

There's another small item alot of folks forget !

The ones that are here regardless of gauge , grade or condition are all that there will ever be !

Because they darn sure aren't making them anymore . Well unless you count Galazan or Remington's custom shop . But then if I'm not mistaken Galazan makes the Remington/Parker custom shop gun anyway !

Alotta folks like to piss and moan over the virtues of a Parker versus a Fox versus a Smith etc etc .

I would take them all hands down over a Jap Browning B-SS or a Beretta whatever etc etc .

[Bill Murphy]

Although David Dwyer is a friend and a nice guy, we can't forget that 90% DHE 28 gauges are only a very small part of Parker collecting. As Craig mentions in his last post, some (most) Parkers are all they will ever be, and are not high condition, high grade or small bore. Every day, more and more Parkers are getting into the hands of people who shoot them. They are also getting into the hands of people who appreciate them and take care of them. Think about it. I shoot a lot, but no Parker that is in my hands now will be shot to death by me or anyone else in the next one hundred years. My guns are mostly beaters and shooters, but they all have value, however small, and will be enjoyed by collectors forever. Very few of our guns will be lost in some widow's closet in the future. Any Parker that is "out" now will remain "out" in the future.

[Mark Callanan]

Well I bought a BHE 12 gauge today
Or should that say Bore?

I will have it next week
Thanks for all your valued information

Mark

[charlie cleveland]

congratulations on that new b grade they are pretty guns... charlie

[Bill Murphy]

Yes, congratulations. Is there a website where we can look at your new BHE?

[Mark Callanan]

I will have it next week
If I decide to keep it (I have a 3 day inspection) I will post pics or email pics to a member to have them posted

[Craig Larter]

My guess is it the straight grip 32" BHE Roger Bain had for sale:corn: