2013 People's Choice Late Entry

[Dean Romig]

Due to a FedEx glitch on Thursday this twenty-gauge Parker Lifter didn't arrive at my home from Phoenix AZ in time for me to bring it to enter into the People's Choice Display at the Annual Meeting Banquet on Friday evening.

You may remember the twenty-gauge lifter that Austin Hogan found about four or five years ago in a town near his home in Piermont, NH. Well, this one is very much like his but a tad nicer and the drop on this one is only 3 1/2" as opposed to the more than 4" of drop on his. This one is a Quality T0.
This one, serial number 10,165, has a LOP of 14 5/8", a DAC of 2 3/8" and a DAH of 3 1/2".
The weight of the entire gun with its original 26" Stub Twist barrels is only 5 lb., 9 oz. and the weight of the barrels alone is 2 lbs. exactly. There is no pre-struck barrel weight and in fact, the only stamp anywhere on the barrel flats is the order number of 941 and on the lug the only stamp is the serial number in the usual location.
The research letter specifies "Plain no eng. or check" and the gun is basically as ordered with the exception that it has a small amount of scroll engraving between the breech balls. There is no evidence of it ever having been checked.
As was Austin's, this one was also built of a frame size somewhat smaller than the 00-Frame which is specified as 15/16" between striker centers. This one measures exactly 29/32" between centers just as Austin's does.
The sculpting of the bolsters is very unusual and I don't recall ever seeing them contoured in this manner.
The shape of the lock plates is also extremely unusual and they resemble the shape of the plates of the LeFever hammerless guns. The hammer ears are so close together you could almost cock them both with the same thumb and the chamber walls are approximately 1/8" :shock:

This is quite a Parker... please enjoy the pictures. I took 58 pictures today and these are just some of them.
This gun was featured in the Mar/Apr 2003 issue of Parker Pages when Jim Parker owned it.

Oh yeah, it letters with the skeleton buttplate with no checking within it.



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[Dean Romig]

A few more pictures of 10,165




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[charlie cleveland]

mighty nice little 20 you got there dean...i like the stub twist barrels for sure anthe lifter must have the lightest barrels i ve ever heard of on a parker at two pounds...looks to be in good shape we need more pictures of this jewel when you got time...lucky fellow.... charlie

[John Havard]

Simply wonderful Dean. Thanks very much for posting some photos. What a wonderful little Parker!

[Dean Romig]

Incidentally, the owner asked me to solicit the opinions of collectors who are "in the know" of maintaining the value of an unusual Parker as to their thoughts regarding a restoration. Would doing so increase the value, decrease the value or not affect the value either way.
We all know what a full restoration can cost by DTR or Brad Bachelder and this should be considered in the cost of the gun vs. the restored value. Maybe it should be left alone?

[edgarspencer]

I can't imagine how cute that gun is, and it's too bad we didn't get 'eyes on'. Do you know how many 00 20s were ever built?

[Dean Romig]

None of the stock books or order books list the frame size of a gun so that question is impossible to answer.

[edgarspencer]

OK, fair point. How many have you seen?

[Bill Murphy]

Some stock books list frame sizes, but not in the period this gun was made.

[Dean Romig]

I've seen only 2 of the 13 referenced in The Parker Story, Austin's and this one.

Of the thirteen Lifters in twenty-gauge documented in TPS;
2 were PT or Plain Twist
2 were TO or Stub Twist (just one of which had 26" barrels and is the very one this thread is about)
3 were Lam or Laminated Steel
1 was Dam or Damascus Steel
2 were Lam3 also Laminated Steel but of a different, more elaborate pattern
3 were Dam3 also Damascus Steel but of a finer grade.

[Dean Romig]

The shape of the top edge of the lock plates really intrigues me.



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[Mills Morrison]

The "Parker Bros" logo intrigues me as well.

[Russ Jackson]

I don't know if ,I would be considered one of the Fellas in the know as far as Parker Collecting goes ,but if it were mine ,I would leave it as is ! What more could you want , this guns is absolutely wonderful ! Thank You for posting pictures Dean , most of us would never get to see one ! Russ

[Mills Morrison]

I just acquired a very early one myself and plan to leave it in "as is" condition. It really looks good for its age and how many early ones are left in decent, unmolested condition?

[Dean Romig]

The owner is requesting opinions on the advisability of a restoration on this gun and how that might affect its value. Please feel free to post opinions on this while respecting that it is a well used gun but for its age, still very nice.

[Dean Romig]

Another thing I just noticed that I haven't seen on any other Parker is the fact that the barrel flats are especially wide as compared to the width of the frame to the point that the flats had to be shaped or contoured narrower on both sides at about the 1 5/8" mark or just between the 4 and the 1 of the 941 order number. What a neat little Parker. I continue to learn from this cute little gun.




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[Dave Suponski]

Dean, Please calculate the center to center distance of the bores.

[Dean Romig]

I suspect, without measuring, that distance should be the same as the 29/32" between the firing pins.

Incidentally, I'll have it at grouse camp and you can examine it to your heart's content but I promised the owner I wouldn't shoot it. He didn't even have to bring that point up as I would never have shot it anyway but he just felt more comfortable with that issue discussed right up front.

[edgarspencer]

Pretty hard to get flats wide enough for 20ga. and mate it to an 00 frame.

You had better make sure there are no 20ga. shells laying about or Dave will try "checking the walls".

[Eldon Goddard]

Who needs a .410? When you can have a 5lb 9oz 20 gauge.

[charlie cleveland]

if this was my little gun i would have to know how it shot and handled on a hunt... i know its a valubable gun but thats what i would do.. charlie

[Chris Travinski]

Dean, Seems to me that a gun like this is going to hold it's value no matter which path you choose. I think it would be spectacular with a DTR make over. I tend to lean more toward leaving guns alone, but if this were mine, I would get it shined up.
Chris

[Frank Cronin]

Unique as this gun is, I would leave as is. However, if the owner decides to do a complete restoration, the owner should duplicate what Gary Carmichael did for his 20 ga lifter with Laminated Steel barrels displayed at the People's Choice at the banquet. What a gun! According to Gary, DTR and Brad Balchelder both did work on that gun.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks for your opinions everyone - keep 'em coming.

Dave, with my crude measuring tools I still get 29/32" by the steel stick with them little tiny marks on it and .895" or so on my digital thing-a-ma-bob that slides and has those pointed jaws, center to center of the tubes at the breech. You being a machinist and all, you should bring one of those dial things you were telling me about on the phone today up ta grouse camp with you..

[Mills Morrison]

We want to see photos of the People's Choice guns as well as hear who won the distinguished service awards this year.

[Dean Romig]

Not surprisingly and by popular demand (and very deservedly so) John Davis and Ed Morgan were the recipients of the 2013 Distinguished Service Awards at the Annual Meeting Banquet. It was my great honor to present them with their awards.

[Mills Morrison]

Congratulations to both of them!

[Rich Anderson]

Who needs a .410? When you can have a 5lb 9oz 20 gauge.

Eldon I have two 20's under 6lbs (both English) and they are pure heaven to carry in the Grouse coverts.

Nice gun Dean I would advise the owner to leave it as is, these are just to scarce to mess with.

[Bill Murphy]

Now that Rich has opened the door to non American grouse guns, he might see some merit in my little Francotte ejector 28, 4 3/4 pounds, full size stock, cylinder and modified. Checkered butt, 26" Siemens-Martin barrels, in the trunk case. I am thinking about having Kevin McCormack make a holster for it.

[charlie cleveland]

well i ll be into it but dont forget the little 20 ga model 37 ithaca ultra lite pump gun at 4 1/2 lbs... charlie

[Rich Anderson]

I'm happy to open the door:rotf: Francotte's are onderfull guns and IMHO undervalued. My lightweights are the Holland & Holland and a Charles Boswell.