Newbie Question

[Rober McLemore]

OK - After decades of dreaming, I'm now the proud new owner of a 16 ga. Parker. Well, it's new to me, it was new perhaps a century ago.

Anyway, I'm having a Dickens of a time trying to remove the barrels from the receiver. I can easily remove the forearm, but when I try to remove the barrels - no such luck. I'm sure that there's some trick to it, but my general mechanical ability has decided to make me look the fool. I tried depressing the "barrel latch lever" the "pin at the ankle"? when the forearm is removed. No such luck.

Oh, BTW - it's a Trojan. Doing Google searches I see where others have trouble with the forearm. Being an LC Smith owner - that wasn't an issue.

Thanks in advance for any responses and everyone have a safe New Year.

- Robert

[E Robert Fabian]

Robert, there no trick it's the cocking hook, may be a little gummed up, try putting gun back together and dry fire it, OK to dry fire Parker, then see if you can remove barrels. If you get barrels off clean cocking hook so it freely moves, it is spring loaded. Some have had to take a different approach, get to that latter if you are not successful.

[Rober McLemore]

I'll describe (as best I can) what I've done and maybe I might need to get professional help (on a lot of different fronts).

I closed everything up. Then I dry fired. Opened the chambers again. Pressed the pin on the right side "ankle". Then I tried to push the barrels back towards the receiver while it was open. Tried to open it as wide as possible with the barrels pointing down (while the shotgun is in the "normal" position). With it as wide open as possible, tried to move barrels back towards chamber.

Still can't get the barrels off.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[Dean Romig]

I hope I'm not taking anything for granted here and I hope this isn't oversimplifying anything but . . . do you know that the foernd must be removed in order to remove the barrels and that no "pin on the right side of the "ankle"" needs to be pressed . . . you just remove the forend while the gun is closed and a when you open the action the barrels will literally fall off.

[Rober McLemore]

Thanks, Dean. With me, never take anything for granted<g>. However, I have removed the forearm. I guess what I'm talking about is a pin that is (imagine holding the gun and shooting a double) on the right hand side to the front that is normally hidden by the forearm. It goes straight forward like the shot would fire. It seems to be spring activated. It would generally be covered by the fore end. I thought it should be depressed to drop the barrels. Either pushing it in or not appears to do nothing.

Thanks again for bearing with me on this.


- Cheers,
Robert

[Russ Jackson]

Robert ,If you opened the gun again ,you recocked the gun ,Close the gun back up ,dry fire the gun ,don't open the gun ,pop the foreend off ,once the foreend is off then open the gun ,but hold onto the barrels ,as Dean said ,they will literally fall off the gun !

[Jack Cronkhite]

Robert: I think you are referring to the "unhooking pin and spring" which will be depressed when the forend is in place. It is under spring tension and has a limited length of travel. See part 27 under the "Technical Information" tab on the left side of the home page.

The first point is that barrel removal is supposed to be an easy process.

With forend off, push the top lever fully to the right with your right thumb while holding the barrels with your left hand. This should open the gun as if you were to load it.

With the top lever still pushed fully to the right, push the barrels in an upward direction with your left hand.

Normally, that's it.

If you don't achieve separation, look into the open action and work the lever a bit left and right. You should see a square bolt (Part 15) moving in and out of the frame. If that bolt is not fully retracted into the frame, you can have difficulty removing the barrels. When the top lever is fully to the right, that bolt should be completely inside the frame.

Grunge in the action can interfere with gaining the necessary clearances to drop the barrels. If it is quite dirty, try cleaning the area and then try barrel removal.

Good luck.

I think this is the pin you speak of (on left front when viewed from below so right front from your description)

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_HPIM8972.JPG



Jack

[Jim Williams]

Robert, you have it backwards. The pin that you see protruding from the action knuckle (you meant "knuckle", not "ankle", right?) is normally depressed when the forend is in place. It must be FULLY PROTRUDING for the barrels to come off. The forend depresses it, which causes the cocking linkage to engage the barrels so that the gun will cock when opened. The engagement of the cocking linkage to the barrels is also what keeps the barrels from falling off when the gun is opened. Now, to remove the barrels - under normal circumstances when you remove the forend, the pin springs forth from the knuckle. Internally, what has happened is that the cocking linkage has disengaged from the barrels, so now when you open the gun the barrels rotate much farther down than normal and just fall off the gun. The situation you are having is most likely that the cocking linkage is not fully disengaging the barrels. You can verify this by the following: Dry fire the gun, remove the forend. Open the gun up fully. If the barrels come to a stop and don't come off, close it up again and dry fire it again. If the gun fires, that means it re-cocked and the cocking linkage didn't disengage as it should have when the forend was removed, savvy?

The most likely cause for not disengaging is gummed up oil and grime. With the forend removed you can try spraying something like Remington Action Cleaner down into the action, and down the tunnel in the knuckle that the pin rides in. Soak it real good and set it aside with the gun resting vertically on the muzzles (stock up, so that all the crud drains out of the action and away from the wood). After a while, spray it good again and tap all around the action on the floor plate and knuckle with a plastic or rubber mallet. You are trying to jar the linkage free from the gunk so that the spring tension can fully disengage it. Give it a few solid whacks (within reason, of course). You can also try "flicking" the pin by depressing it and releasing it suddenly so that it snaps briskly when released. This should get your linkage freed up and disengaged. If not, repeat the whole procedure a few times (spray, soak, whack, flick, etc.). If it still won't come apart, the floor plate will have to come off, but that's something to avoid right now.

Jim

[Jack Cronkhite]

...With the forend removed you can try spraying something like Remington Action Cleaner down into the action, and down the tunnel in the knuckle that the pin rides in. Soak it real good and set it aside with the gun resting vertically on the muzzles (stock up, so that all the crud drains out of the action and away from the wood).
Jim

This is wise counsel. Many stock heads have "rotted" over the decades due to becoming oil soaked. A thin film of oil on metal during reassembly after tear-down is not an issue but a few drops into the action every once in a while will flow under gravity and end up in the stock head when stored vertically butt down.
Jack

[Rober McLemore]

Jim - Thanks for all the advice. I did most of the first paragraph and after receiving your post did the rest. I thought something had gummed up and now I'm convinced. I'll try your paragraph 2 in the a.m. Hat's off to you for the great post.

Jack - Yeah, know what you mean. Many years ago I had an Ithaca which had a lot of weak wood behind the receiver due because of too much oil over the years. Eventually, I couldn't shoot it any more.

Thanks for all the great advice. I'll post follow ups as I try to "de gunk" it tomorrow.


Cheers,
Robert

[Jim Williams]

Robert,

If it still doesn't work, there is another possible option before removing the floor plate, but it depends on the individual gun whether you can access it or not. If you're still stuck, let us know and we will proceed.

Jim

[Rober McLemore]

The house now has the fine aroma of Remington Action Cleaner. Definitely an improvement from the gaseous German Wirehair who blessed us with his GI problems last night!

I had a can with my cleaning supplies / tools. I've used about 1/2 in a series of attempts. Still not go. The Parker is resting barrels down right now. After dinner I'll try again. Once I finish the can, I'll let folks know if I've had success or need to do stronger surgery on it.

Thanks for all the help. The gun seems to be 95%+ blued barrels and perhaps 60%+ action. I'm surprised its so gummed up.

Thanks for all the help,
Robert

[Jim Williams]

Robert,

Do the serial numbers on the barrels and receiver match? Sometimes this situation occurs when barrels from another gun are mated without proper fitting.

In any case, if you continue to be unsuccessful, there is another thing that you can try. Open the gun and look on the left side of the barrel lug for a large-headed screw like the one the arrow points to in the picture. See if your gun will open enough to allow clearance for the screw head so that you can remove it. If so, you are lucky! (Some guns do, and some don't, and I haven't determined the reason for that yet). With a PROPERLY fitting screwdriver, carefully remove that screw and the barrels will come off. It is what attaches the cocking hook to the barrels, so you will be leaving the cocking hook in the receiver. Hopefully with the barrels out of the way you will be able to then work the cocking hook loose from the bellcrank in the receiver that it snaps into when you put the barrels on the gun.

Jim

[Jack Cronkhite]

Jim: How many guns like that did Mr. Parker make?

[Jim Williams]

Heh! I dunno. I stole the pic off of the October Parker Of The Month thread because it suited my purpose. Not many, rest assured!

Jim

[Dave Suponski]

That is the AAHE owned by our own John Dunkle. I had the opportunity to shoot that gun at the New Years Day shoot in 2009. That was a real treat!

[Russ Jackson]

That is the AAHE owned by our own John Dunkle. I had the opportunity to shoot that gun at the New Years Day shoot in 2009. That was a real treat!

Lucky You !!!!!!!!!! Wouldn't it be a kind and generous gesture on Johns part ,if he would let each member take care of that beautiful gun ,for ,well ,lets just say one month out of the year , I'll tell you what ,I will volunteer for this coming October !:cool:

[Dean Romig]

I would be extremely surprised if Parker Bros. ever made another gun like that one - I'm sure it is a unique Parker and really should be featured in a Double Gun Journal article with several photos of the features that distinguish this wonderful piece of trap-shooting history.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Sooo....... did it come out of the factory in this configuration??

I will volunteer for November, with a promise to use only in low cover habitat to reduce risk of aquiring a handling mark. Will do my best to avoid hidden badger holes. Should an inadvertent mark arise, the current owner would have the option of a repair or enjoyment of an annual feast of roosters, such as this.
Cheers,
Jack
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/normal_20080214_IMG_9999_16sgw.JPG

[Dean Romig]

[QUOTE=Jack Cronkhite;10529]Sooo....... did it come out of the factory in this configuration??
QUOTE]

Fully documented factory original . . . but John's Great Grandfather ordered it so he should be the one who addresses the question - once again.

[Jim Williams]

I must add that I felt quite squeamish by defiling a pic of such a beautiful, rare gun with an ugly big red arrow. However, it was the only pic I could find with expedience that showed the location of the screw (sorry, John). Right after I posted it, of course I found another pic of a low-grade gun that showed the screw even better. Oh, well...

Jim

[Bruce Day]

The Dunkle AAHE was pictured in DGJ maybe 10 years ago. It is the only known Parker with finger grooves. I had the pleasure of shooting it in Nebraska about 7 or 8 years ago, but not the pleasure of carrying it, while pheasant hunting and BD ( Before Dunkle) . At over 8lbs it was not designed to be a game gun.

I believe I am correct in remembering that it is the first Parker Pigeon grade gun. This was John's grandfather's gun and those of us who were present when John first saw the gun again after many years apart will never forget the moment and our joy for John.

[E Robert Fabian]

Johns beautiful gun is in DGJ volume eleven issue 3. I ordered some back issues to get Sherman Bells 2 7/8 loading data and read his article and low and behold what did I find. The pictures are outstanding, the story is lacking the input of John though.

[John Dunkle]

The Dunkle AAHE was pictured in DGJ maybe 10 years ago. It is the only known Parker with finger grooves. I had the pleasure of shooting it in Nebraska about 7 or 8 years ago, but not the pleasure of carrying it, while pheasant hunting and BD ( Before Dunkel) . At over 8lbs it was not designed to be a game gun.

I believe I am correct in remembering that it is the first Parker Pigeon grade gun. This was John's grandfather's gun and those of us who were present when John first saw the gun again after many years apart will never forget the moment and our joy for John.

Ummm... A couple of "nits" before we mess up the provanance of this Parker....

If the gun was "BD" - it means you shot that AAHE before 1956? I remember shooting my great-grandfather's AAHE when I was old enough to "heft it" - probably in the late sixties?? I was his only great-grandson to ever shoot it while he was alive. After his passing, it went to my Grandfather - then on to me... Sometime ago - I posted a bunch of pictures that I remember while sitting on my Great-grandfather's lap looking at "GrandPa's guns" in his "gun room" - along with shelves and shelves of trophies..

He also had the AAHE made as his double Trap Gun (as he sometimes shot doubles) - but, he didn't shoot Pigeons - he shot trap - and was Massachusetts State Champion (with 100 straight) from the meet held July 13th 1918. His score was 100 straight at that meet (he wasn't shooting his Parker for that - sorry).... He shot competitively from about 1905 through the early 20s and was a member of the Paleface Shooting Association (and consistently one of their "top guns" from about 1912 - 1920) ... As for the AAHE - it was - and is - the first vent rib double known, and as Bruce said - is the only grooved grip known...

As for how & why it left me for a few years, that's a private story, sorry.... - But for the reunion??? Bruce has that exactly right...

;)

:cheers: Bruce and to all!!

And oh - Jim?? Grandpa would have been proud to have his gun used to help out a new Parker owner... Don't you think twice about it.... ;)

John

[scott kittredge]

john , that is one gun of your i have yet to shoot, but with that said you know what happens every time i shoot a gun of yours. scott

[John Dunkle]

...that is one gun of your i have yet to shoot....you know what happens every time i shoot a gun of yours. ..Which is why, Scott - even though I like you as a brother - there is the "five foot rule" between you and that Parker... If you get closer than five feet, all of a sudden you'll be posting about "your gun"...... :shock:

:rotf:

:bigbye:

:cuss:

:banghead:

:duck:

:clap:

:smiley7:

JD

[scott kittredge]

Did you say YOUR GUN ? does that, could it be, i have a high grade parker:shock:, my brother ? So i should get to shoot i:?, ok when? :duck: scott

[John Dunkle]

...So i should get to shoot i:?, ok when? :duck: scottHey Brother,

You know anything of mine is yours and anything yours is yours? Ask Bruce when you can shoot it - as apparently - he shot it wayyyyy before I did??? He must'a known my great-grandfather way before I did... In fact - in 1917, Bruce was probably doing "fly-overs" over Grandpa's house in Brookline...??

Who whould'a guessed???

;)

John

[Dean Romig]

The Dunkle AAHE - At over 8lbs it was not designed to be a game gun.
.

Bruce, I've got to take exception with that statement . . . I have never shot a more well-balanced, dynamic, extension of my mind and body than that 34" magic wand. I would be surprised if carrying that gun on a morning's pheasant hunt would be at all tiring.

Over 8 lbs.?? I'll eat my grungy ol' Filsons if it is :shock:

[Jack Cronkhite]

I would be surprised if carrying that gun on a morning's pheasant hunt would be at all tiring.

That made me think of my much younger years. My Dad took me hunting from the time I could walk - a bit to my mother's consternation. I eventually was allowed to be a gun bearer - hauling a shotgun just in case it was needed while Dad had the rifle for deer, moose or elk or hauling a rifle just in case it was needed while Dad had the shotgun for ducks, geese, grouse or pheasants. I found my load to be heavy yet was longing for the day I could get a licence. When that day came, I was allowed the VH, which, for the first time for me, had the added weight of two high brass blue CIL Imperial shot shells in it. I vividly recall just how "light" that gun became that year.
Cheers,
Jack

[John Dunkle]

... and was Massachusetts State Champion (with 100 straight) from the meet held July 13th 1918. His score was 100 straight at that meet (he wasn't shooting his Parker for that - sorry).... ... And this is his picture (of my great-grandfather) from that same day. It hangs in my office over my desk.. His name was George Leland Osborn - and the AAHE was his Parker that he ordered from Parker (the picture Jim used is my picture I took of the AAHE however, not from DGJ). What is written at the bottom of the picture is:
State Championship
July 13th 1918
- Score 100 Straight -

He looks a lot younger in that pic then I remember him, 'tho ;)

John

[Dean Romig]

And I've said it before - put a PGCA cap on his head and the family resemblance is uncanny. . . . or, maybe it is canny :corn:

[Christopher Lien]

And this is his picture (of my great-grandfather) from that same day. It hangs in my office over my desk.. His name was George Leland Osborn

Yup, that's the guy.... As I remember in my research, George L. Osborn had a very distinct shooting stance that made him recognizable on the trap line from quite a distance, a detail confirmed in a late night phone conversation with his Grandson Mr. J. Dunkle... We both had a good chuckle when John shared a great story from his younger days related to the unique shooting stance and how his GrandDad had once corrected John's shooting posture... Somewhere I have a side by side comparison image I posted last year of John and the elder Osborn, and Dean is right, the close resemblance is spooky...
Great Photo John...;)

Best, CSL
__________________________

[John Dunkle]

....As I remember in my research, George L. Osborn had a very distinct shooting stance that made him recognizable on the trap line from quite a distance, a detail confirmed...Hi Dean & CSL!

CSL, your research is, once again - spot on correct... :) Sheesh - it wasn't "purty" but it really worked for him... Somewhere, I have a clipping or old picture of him on the line I'll try to find? If you have one as well - please feel free to post it up, OK??

Dean and CSL - as always - my thanks!!!

John

[Rober McLemore]

Jim - Still no go with the basic cleaning and gunk spraying. Tomorrow I'll gather up all my screwdrivers to ensure I don't bugger that screw. If I don't find one that fits well, I'll search around town for a better fit.

BTW - It was REAL hard trying to distinguish the difference between your pic and my Trojan. I believe that the screw you point at may be the only thing the two have in common!<g>

Thanks for the help and I'll keep you updated.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Robert: Ensure the screw slot is completely cleaned out. Do not use any kind of wedge shaped screw driver. Hollow ground bits that completely fill the slot side to side and width wise is the way to go. Here's another shot of that screw on a family VH.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/HPIM6782.JPG

[E Robert Fabian]

I would have a file on hand to thin the blade of your screw driver. just clamp driver in vise and carfuly thin blade or narrow up blade, it only takes a few minutes.

[Dean Romig]

But hollow-ground is always best. Home Depot sells a small, inexpensive electric grinder with a fine grinding wheel about 2" diameter and a tool rest that does a real nice job shaping my set of Brownell's drivers.

[E Robert Fabian]

Dean, I just received my Brownells thin bit set. It comes with 18 bits and looks like I'm going to like em.

[Dean Romig]

But take a close look. If they are like mine, they didn't come hollow ground and I needed to shape every one of them. Did you get the set with the blue/clear plastic handles?

[E Robert Fabian]

It's a bit set, I have one driver and change bits. Some one on here recommended them.

[Jack Cronkhite]

Dean: The sets I purchased several months back are great. I have yet to encounter a screw slot that I cannot match with a tip that completely fills it. I have not had to shape the tips at all. I now cannot imagine playing with gun screws without these.

Robert: Can you confirm that the serial number on the frame is the same as on the barrel lug? (Assumption that the Trojan locates the SN in the same locations as other grades). If they do match, it may still be a matter of patience in clearing built up crud.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_HPIM8978%7E0.JPGhttp://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_HPIM8982.JPG

This gun (108603), as can be seen, was an awful rust bucket. Even at that I was lucky enough not to encounter what you are going through to remove the barrels. http://www.free-animations.co.uk/messages/good_luck/images/goodluck_6.gif

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_Parker_108603_035.jpghttp://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_Parker_108603_065.jpg


http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_HPIM8973.JPGhttp://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/cpg1410/albums/userpics/28884/normal_Parker_108603_001.jpg