A little input needed on case colors

[Bill Bates]

I'm looking at a DHE manufactured in 1920 that looks pretty good, the case colors maybe to good. They are dark blues, tans and pinks. The colors look much darker and maybe brighter in hand than they do in these photos taken in poor light.The other major downside is the stock has been cut and then a spacer added to get it back to a shootable length of pull. The wood has been refinished for sure. There is a whole in the bottom rib (no pic sorry) a few inches ahead of the foreend lug. Barrels don't look redone but I wonder. The chambers measure right at 2 3/4 with my little metal ruler ;so, I assume the chambers have been lengthened.

I've not seen a really high condition Parker in real life so I'm coming to the experts here for advice. Do they look right or redone? Also, the Miller single trigger I'm assuming was added later. Can it be put back to a double trigger? How big a hit in value should the stock make? Any input will be helpful.

the pics.

http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill/image/152318733.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill/image/152318736.jpg

this one is overexposed and the colors kind of blown out
http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill/image/152318737.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill/image/152318738.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill/image/152318735.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill/image/152318734.jpg

[Bill Murphy]

The colors look great, original or not. The trigger should not be replaced, it is a wonderful trigger and does not detract from the value of the gun. The spacers and Hawkins pad should be left as is if the length is right for you. This is a wonderful gun that I would be proud to own and shoot. What is the serial number that I cannot read? How long is the stock from the middle of the trigger to the middle of the pad?

[Chuck Bishop]

Bill,

In my opinion the colors are not original (although nice). What I see a lot on recolored guns is that there is a lot of straw around the edges of the frame and on the edge of the breach balls where the barrels meet. It's very evident on the photo's you posted. Also the watertable pattern is not what I'm used to seeing.

The condition of the colors don't match the rest of the gun's condition. Again, just my opinion.

[Bill Bates]

The serial number starts with 188318 (the last three numbers may not be correct) I'm going from memory. It is in the book and correct for barrel, grade, gauge and stock.

The gentleman that has it is kind of wanting a healthy original condition price but I have a thing for 16 gauge shotguns. If it was an O frame it would be in my safe if he would budge a little on price. If the metal has been redone (well redone if it is) then maybe the price is out of line or maybe not. Either way it is enough I feel caution is called for.

[Paul Stafford]

Odd that a D grade has such a plain piece of wood, the one's I have are much different.

[Bill Murphy]

Bill, do you have a picture of the other side of the stock? What is the range of the asking price? A 16 gauge that looks like that one is a bit of a catch. Does this gun have any Remington repair codes on the barrel flats?

[Chris Travinski]

Looks like Turnbull work to me. Nice gun, I like the case colors, I think it'll look great with a little wear on it.

[Bill Bates]

There aren't any Remington repair codes.

I used a loop and there is no sign of polishing on the frame. The engraving is sharp and crisp which is one of the reason I wondered about the case color being original. I agree the frame looks a little to good for the rest of the gun which is why I suspect it has been re-cased by someone that knows their craft. I doesn't look like cyanide or I would have suspect Delgregos. I've not seen Turnbulls work on a Parker other than photos but I've seen plenty of other guns and it doesn't feel Turnbull to me.

I didn't snap a photo of the right side of the butt. The grain is pretty straight. I may ask if I can carefully pull the trigger guard to check the wood for a serial number. Of course I would understand being told no. I didn't measure the wood but the pull and drop was pretty good for me so I'm guessing 14 to maybe 14 1/2 inch length of pull and 1 1/2 ish in. to maybe 2 1/2 in. drop at cheek and heel.

So anyone have a feeling on what a fair price for a well done re-worked DHE 16 gauge should be? I'm on a bit of beer budget so I might have to let go of a few guns out of the safe to fund this one.

[Bill Murphy]

I think we're all waiting for you to tell us what neighborhood the seller is in as to price. Is he in the threes or is he in the fives? We'll tell you if he's out of line or not.

[Dean Romig]

The color looks like Turnbull to me too. I've seen a number of restorations from DTR and that one fits right into his fine quality of work. One of our members has a Grade 2 with 30" 20 ga. Damascus barrels that was restored by Turnbull and he will agree that the engraving has been picked up nicely which is one of the qualities by which we judge Turnbull's work. None but a scant few can pick up Parker Bros engraving to look exactly like original PB engraving.


But, I wouldn't rule out Brad Batchelder's work either.

[edgarspencer]

Other than the blued safety, nothing about that gun bothers me a bit.

[Rich Anderson]

IMHO I believe the work to be that of Turnbull. You can send him the serial number and they will tell you if they worked on it or not. I bought a GHE 16 in original condition with about 50% CC at the Southern for just north of 5K. PG, SPF and Dogs head butt, 26 inch Damascuss bbls. This gun is very nice and original.

You want us to put a price on this for you which in all fairness to both you and the members of this forum is impossible. Why? because we don't have the gun in hand to examine. IF you would tell us what the asking price is we can at least make an informed guess if its accurate. I would subtract from the value (for barter points) the spacer in the stock but as soon as I acquired the gun it would be off to Harry Lawson to have a wood spacer painted to match the stock grain.

At the end of the day the decision to purchase is yours and yours alone. As a friend would say "you can't pay to much for a nice Parker, you might however pay to early".

[Bill Bates]

I collect Smith & Wessons and know well the "you didn't pay to much you; bought to early," saying.

The Parker for me will be a shooter. Honestly if you all had told me it looked like original case colors then I would pass and let a collector tuck it away. I have enough guns cluttering up the safe that don't ever get shot. Myself I would feel comfortable at $4 to 5K which might be possible but I also don't want to be to early.

[Rich Anderson]

You still haven't said what the asking price is. How long are the barrels and whats the choke? Not that it matters to value (unless the barrels are 32's) I'm just curious. At 4-5K I don't think you would be paying early.

[Justin Julian]

Edgar, what's wrong with a blued safety on a Parker? Do you prefer them left polished silver? I don't think they were case colored at the factory, were they?

[Dean Romig]

They were. And we really can't tell if that one is blued or color case hardened and taken on a darker hue.

[Bill Zachow]

I must have been away from buying Parkers too long. In my opinion, $5000 for an obviously redone Parker with a cut stock and non original trigger and lengthened chambers is more than I would pay. The hole in the lower rib gives away the barrel redo. Again, in my opinion only, the gun would be easy to buy and hard to sell to a knowledgeable collector.

[edgarspencer]

Edgar, what's wrong with a blued safety on a Parker? Do you prefer them left polished silver? I don't think they were case colored at the factory, were they?

No, I also don't believe they were case hardened. I may be wrong, but I believe they were niter blued, which wears fairly quickly. The trigger guards were also niter blued. The safety on the subject gun appears to be hot blued, but if it's not, and it may just be the photo, appears to have the shine and hue of hot bluing.

[Brian Dudley]

In my opinion, the gun has been refinished for sure. The colors and barrels exhibit no wear at all. And the stock finish is good, but the darkening up by the head and just the overall appearance of the wood points to refinishing. A gun with that high of original metal finish would not need a stock refinish. Also, if the gun was used much at all in the past 100 years, there would be some wear to the bottom of the action and the guard bow.
Also, the fact that the barrels have a weep hole tells that they have been blued since they left Meriden.

Speaking of the colors... They are VERY good in my opinion. I think that those colors are one of the best representations of what Meriden colors looked like in that time period.

The gun may or may not be able to be converted to double triggers. I think that altering of the trigger slots is required for a miller installation. So, that cannot easily be reversed without replacing the plate. Also, a large amount of wood would have been removed from inside the head to allow clearance do he trigger mechanism. So, a conventional DT safety setup would not work without a bit of wood repair.

[Dean Romig]

Edgar, please show us a picture of the safety slide and top tang of your "Pristine VH".

[Kenny Graft]

IF the barrels are correct and and in good condition I would think from your pictures that the above stated 5K would be fair... The cost of quality refinish work and the gun itself adds up quickly. You would have a very nice parker ejector 16!....Have the stock properly fixed or replaced with a used one in time and no one could fuss about your Parker! They will only envy you. I sold a nice original DHE-16 at 9K only because it had a SST instead of DT. If your buying to use, shoot and hunt its perfect! If buying for a original collectible or show piece its not a good choice period. SXS ohio....

[edgarspencer]

After looking at the safety button again, and blown up, I withdraw my original comment that it may have been hot blued. Clearly now, it's not. Maybe cold rust blued. I have a gun which has had no handling, and it has the slight bluish tint of niter bluing, much like early Colt niter bluing (which no one seems to have mastered) I'm much more accustomed to guns which have seen use, and many of mine are the grey-silver, with traces of original bluing.

[Bill Murphy]

How long are the barrels? That makes a difference.

[Rich Anderson]

The Miller trigger does nothing to detract from the value of this. we still don't know what the asking price is.

[Larry Frey]

The Miller trigger does nothing to detract from the value of this.

It dose to someone who only shoots/collects double trigger guns.:duck:

[Rich Anderson]

It's the best SST trigger out there but......one would have to be proficient in the nuances of the SST to really appreciate the beauty and functionalty of the Miller. This is lost on those of us who blindly follow the two trigger dogma.:)

[ed good]

a nice redone gun like this should sell for less than $3000...any more than that and you might consider a repro as a better investment.

[Rich Anderson]

IMHO that gun would be a steal at 3K.

[Justin Julian]

Would you ask for less than $3,000 if it were yours? I doubt it.

[Kenny Graft]

I would give 3K anytime for a gun like that one!...its worth more! The only good reason for inventing a SST would be for those with FAT fingers or if you have to wear big heavy gloves to keep from frost bite...oops Did I say that...EEEEEK It wont erase...............)-:

[ed good]

so, then, like the man asked, what do you think it is worth?

[Rich Anderson]

I happen to like a SST esp the Miller and have several Parkers with them and NEVER had a problem. December (late Oct as well) Grouse hunting requires gloves and double triggers and gloves just haven't worked for me in the past.

The original poster isn't willing to put the asking price on this thread and as I hve stated previously I don't think it's fair to either party to guess at a value via pictures. IF you want to know what I think its worth or what I would be willing to pay please send me a PM and I'll let you know.

[Bill Bates]

Sorry about not getting back sooner but its grouse season ( a rainy, muddy and so far disappointing grouse season)

As to the asking price. The seller isn't all that motivated and we've been doing the dance. He didn’t ever give me a solid asking price, it has been more a make me a good offer type of thing. He feels it is a high condition original. It is obvious that were on different pages. I was sure the barrels had been redone, the wood had been refinished and cut and in my gut I felt that very likely the action re-cased (but wasn’t sure). The experts here confirmed my suspensions and for that, thank you.

I'm kind of comfortable at something in the price range of a repo or a bit more for a well done reconditioned shooter Parker DHE. If I bought a well used DHE 16 (not an easy thing to come by) and sent it off to Turnbull I'm sure I would be north of $5K when it was all done and not have the cut stock spacer issue and a nicer gun than one in question.

After looking in the safe and looking at what I would need to part with ( My 12 Gauge Fox AE and my late Damascus Parker GH and more) to fund the purchase I’m out. Like I need another 16 side by side. Thanks again for your expert input.

[Rich Anderson]

Theres always room for another 16, I shudder to think how many I have now. IMHO this is a gun thats value would be between 5-6K. I figure the ejectors add about $1500. The spacer in the stock is easily fixed but remains a barter item. The seller is fishing for a value but in the back of his mind he knows what he wants for this. Start low and you'll get to the true asking price.

[ED J, MORGAN]

I believe anything over $3800. is too much.