8 ga round ball

[charlie cleveland]

today i fired up my old gas grill and found me a old aluminum cooking pot and melted down 2 lbs of lead..the old grill had twoopen cooking eyes so i put the pot one one and after the lead had melted i tried pouring it in the mold with no sucsess..i had forgotten that the mold needs to be as hot as the lead..the next attemt was good i then made 12 balls befoe i had to quit..but i m back in the groove as they say..a person needs to be carefullmelting and pouring lead..i had a fan blowing away the funes and safety glasses on and a good pair of leather gloves..you must take safety precautions doing this...ant way i m back to shooting the old gun for accuracy again. my target was at 25 long steps i only had 2 loads made so anyway i shot from the sitting position old 8 was shooting a little high..but would have hit the deer... gotta load upthese 12 balls and do some more practice... charlie

[Dennis V. Nix]

Charlie, I haven't done any bullet casting for many years. I just haven't found the time. I do appreciate you being careful though. It does pay off in the long run to protect eyes and flesh when you can. Years ago I had a lead pot going in the kitchen and a friend came over. I forget exactly why but somehow in horseplay he splashed water in the lead pot and it did explode. He and I were very lucky we didn't get burned from spattering lead. I was cleaning it off the wall around the stove though.

How did the two balls group at 25 yards from your 8 bore? I hope you get to use it on a deer this year.

Dennis

[CraigThompson]

I wanna see you hit that Dr Pepper can at about 65 yards with one of those roundballs :whistle:

All BS aside I wish I had a hammerless 8 gauge so I could give it a try as well !

[Paul Harm]

What kind and how much powder you using ?

[Rick Losey]

only Charlie can see lead and think Bar-B-Que :clap:

can't wait to hear the next shooting report

[charlie cleveland]

paul im useing a winchester clear hull and winchester 209 primer 40 grains of alliant powder blue dot...3 half inch thick card waddings..then i cut a rem.sp8 ga plastic wadding down to the main base..seat the lead ball put small amount of pressure as i hot glue ball in place..load is very comfortable to shoot light on shoulder and stock.. at 25 long steps the old 8 ga was shooting about 6 inches high on those two shots..there was about 4 inches between the shots... craig you might as well be hunting you a old 8 ga up...there a hoot to shoot for sure..i m gona try to be ready for a deer when he or she comes by... charlie

[charlie cleveland]

started raining this evening so i went into the shop and decided to load up the round ball loads..took me about 30 minutes to load and glue in place but then i had time to shoot 5 loads as it had quit raining..shot from the 25 long step poistion i had used before all 5 shots in a pie plate circle..gun is shooting high yet and to the left about 4 inches..my last shot i aimed to the right about 4 to 5 inches and dead centered the target..tommorrow i will shoot again and see if my kentucky windage is still on...gonna go for a dr pepper can at 65 yards some day.ha.....charlie

[charlie cleveland]

shot the 8 ga parker again this morning..fired 5 shots from 25 steps..all 5 shots were grouped in a 4 inch circle..my kentucy widage is rite on...both barrels are fireing to same point i have to remember to shoot right about 4 inches and take a fiune site to keep from shooting high...my last shot wasat 35 steps needless to say i either pulled off or somnething my shot went 8 inches to the left of the other 5 shots..at 25 steps i know were gun shoots i now have to make some more round balls and load up several rounds.. i would like to get old gun to shooting ok out to 40 yardsbut 50 would be better..i should know in a few days.. charlie

[John Farrell]

Charlie - I know this is more information than you may be looking for, but . . .

Did you weigh the lead balls for consistency and separate out the light and heavy ones and keep them together by weight? Then reload the balls in each weight group (they don't have to be exact weights but within a decent range of each other) and see how they shoot. You might be surprised. It's a little more work, but success comes from good works.

[Dennis V. Nix]

Charlie, it sounds to me like you are right in the ball park with those loads. I think with a good hold you are going to hit your deer out to 35 yards. I know you will be successful this year. I know these things. I'm psychotic.

Dennis

[charlie cleveland]

john i have not weighed them in fact it never occured to me that this weight thing would make a differance..i will weigh the next batch and do as you recommended.thanks for the info... dennis i m sure somebody s got a crystal ball to look into i m gonna need some help for sure i m gonna tote my lucky knife too when hunting with the 8 ga.. charlie

[John Farrell]

Charlie - I come from a past history of benchrest shooting competitions in my yoot. I was making my own .224 bullets in 1958 in order to control the accuracy of same and try to be in the top 5 or at least mentioned in the top 10.

My last venture into casting .50 cal. muzzleloader bullets opened my eyes to the wide variation in bullet weights coming out of my molds. I did a careful analysis of performance by weight and found that the closer the batches of bullets weighed the better results. I never determined where the glitch was in the weight differentials, but, the weighing, sorting and loading by weight batch and stored in marked (by bullet weight) containers made a difference.

[Dennis V. Nix]

John, with all due respect to your bench rest experience in shooting and reloading (and I do totally agree with you when shooting bench rest) do you really think weighing each round ball will make a difference at 25 yards? I have my doubts. With a smooth bore there are so many more variables that the weight of the ball (within reason) hardly seems like it will make a difference. I am asking because I don't know, not to be argumentative.

Dennis

[John Dallas]

Don't know anything about round balls (among other things), but I do know that a high-level .22 benchrest shooter friend of mine weighs and measures the overall length of his shells, and segregates them based on those measurements

[John Farrell]

Here's the question. If one is going to shoot disparate weight projectiles at a target only 25-30 yards away, that's fine. The margin of error is probably not more than 4" as Charlie reports. But what if the finest buck that you ever saw is 50 yards away - or 80 yards? (See photo). And you take a shot that you know only has a 1 in 20 chance of hitting on the point of aim???? Charlie states he's using Kentucky windage to get the slug on the target with a 4" deviation at 30 yards. Shooting a too heavy or too light round ball and missing that buck would be sad. And even more devastatin' than finding out that the cork in your flask came loose and all your warmin' juice ran off onto the log you're sittin' on.

Me? A little more time weighing the balls or bullets into some order of weight deviation - and later feeling confident if that buck steps up to the zeroed in area - makes sense to me. It sure beats watching American Idol or Duck Dynasty.

[charlie cleveland]

john if i can get this old 8 to shoot out to 50 yards with some accuracy i would be happy for sure..i m conifdent i could hit a deer in the heart area at 25 for sure ...i will start my next round of shooting at 35 steps..when i get this mastered if possible i will go to the 50 yard line..but with these round ball loads in the 8 with no better site picture than that big brass front site i think this will be the 8 s limit for sure..but i will try weighing them for sure.i dont watch duck dynasty or american idol either... charlie

[Daryl Middlebrook]

Wait a minute!!!!!!!! ole Johnny Reb and them Damn Yankees learned a long time ago that the Minnie was much more accurate than a round ball in a rifled barrel.--So, does this hold true in a smooth bore?

Then there is the question of ----say, 000 buckshot. In an 8 bore, you could get a lot of them in the hull. Do you have a better chance of killing the deer at 70 yards with a bunch of 000 buckshot than you do with one round ball?

I don't know the answers, but now I am curious.

Daryl

[Paul Harm]

I don't believe the 000 buck would retain enough energy to kill a buck at 70 yards - could be wrong. I shot a lot of black powder muzzle loading RB - it's easy to get air pockets, more so in the bigger RB's. You can eliminate a lot of this by having a cut off sprue plate on top of the mold about 3/8" thick. The weight of the lead in the plate weighs down on the lead in the mold and pushes out any air pockets. The neighbor showed me this trick. I made thicker plates for all my molds. I don't believe the mold Charlie got from overseas has a plate - at least mine didn't for my .68 cal. rifle. It's made of brass and round so it would be hard to add a cut off. For this reason I would weigh all my RB's - you'll fine some with air pockets. When I shot the Tradegun matches [ flintlock, smooth bore with no rear sight ] past 50 yards was getting iffy. You may have to limit yourself to a closer shot for a sure kill. Couple of years back I got a nice big doe at about 20 yards with a 12ga smooth bore Matchlock I had made myself. They are a PITA to hunt with trying to keep the wick burning at the proper length. It dropped in it's tracks. I used a .715 RB. The only sights was a shotgun bead on the front. Good luck.

[charlie cleveland]

i have killed deer with 00 buck in the 8 ga..but the old 8 s barrels have been cut off so no choke it will scatter the buckshot to much past 40 yards for a clean kill.. i know of a doe that was killed at 115 steps with a 12 ga single barrel useing 00 buck only one pellet hit the deer.the buckshot hit the deer rite in the ear it dropped in its track.so i believe the buckshot would have enough energy if the deer was hit in the vitals...young deer are fairly easy to kill but the big does and bucks can take a lot of hits and still get away.. i hope i can get the old 8 to shoot out to 50 yards but i know i ve got a lot of practiceing to do.. think i ll go load up a few rounds and try the 35 step target... charlie

[John Farrell]

I like a guy with tenacity and the courage of his convictions. You're da man, Charlie!!!!

[charlie cleveland]

i loaded up ten more rounds of theround ball loads i steped off 35 long steps from the target..shot 5 rounds in the right barrel the grouping was about 5 inches..i then shot the left barrel 5 times a coupla of the shells were bloopers but the other three were spot on.out of the 8 good shells the grouping was no bigger than 6 inches i think i m ready for the 50 yard mark now got to load up more shells..i musta not of held the ball down good when i glued those shells..anyway will take more time next time for the 50 yard mark..and john i got in a hurry and did not weigh the balls..but i will next go around..charlie

[John Farrell]

Charlie - If you're interested, I came across an Italian manufacturer that makes a 8 gauge roll crimping tool that is used in a drill press. I have a friend going to Italy in few weeks if you think you can't live without this roll crimper. I will have to determine who the company is, too, so I can tell you the cost. But, there are only two I looked at so it wouldn't be difficult finding out the info.

The photo shows their 12 gauge roll crimper, but, the 8 gauge is included in their sales information on the internet.

[charlie cleveland]

thanks john but i already have a roll crimper for the 8 ga i think i got it from precision reloading..you put it a reversible drill it works mighty good.. i ve been loading the round ball at the end of shell and hot glueing in place do you think i would be better off doing it a differant way..i m open to any suggestions..charlie

[CraigThompson]

By no means was I ever a regular benchrest competitor . But I have shot more then most folks from the bench in the bags with custom rifles factory rifles and a good many things in between . Shooting both cast and jacketed bullets .

Each year I spend a great deal of time casting for a herd of 444 lever actions and have gotten plenty 3 shot groups at 100 yards in the 1/2" range . And I do not weigh segregate my bullets . I only look for external flaws .

Now granted as the other fellow says it certainly cannot hurt to weight segregate them .

But it's like anything else if the person in question truely "believes" it will help in their mind it does . If a person loathes the idea or doesn't really by it they are wasting their time .

Over the years I've read on variouse forums about folks just starting to learn the entire rifle reloading process and they expect to be able to make loads comparable to what the seasoned BR competitor does after lets say 20 years experience . In a situation like that the person is setting themselves up to FAIL . Just about every facet of reloading be it rifle bullets or shotgun shells has a learning curve .

When a newcomer asks me questions I tell them to just try and make the gun go BANG the first time and work themselves up in increments .

When I myself first started I shot with a bunch of old timers and I thought I should be able to equal them right off the bat and it ain't so Joe !
I also got frustrated pretty damn quick until I stepped back and lessened what I wanted to attain each trip .

So if a person feels weighing case , bullets etc and segregating by weight is a help then by all means do it .But if you don't really see it then don't do it . I mean a real IBRA shooter is worried about 1/100ths of an inch . A fellow with an 8 gauge shooting punkin balls is more worried about 1/4 Minute Angle of Deer !

[CraigThompson]

i loaded up ten more rounds of theround ball loads i steped off 35 long steps from the target..shot 5 rounds in the right barrel the grouping was about 5 inches..i then shot the left barrel 5 times a coupla of the shells were bloopers but the other three were spot on.out of the 8 good shells the grouping was no bigger than 6 inches i think i m ready for the 50 yard mark now got to load up more shells..i musta not of held the ball down good when i glued those shells..anyway will take more time next time for the 50 yard mark..and john i got in a hurry and did not weigh the balls..but i will next go around..charlie

Get you 6-10 of the brass shells and crimp them like the pictures I've seen of old British shotgun ball loads . Looks as if they seat the ball deep enough not to be above the brass then the push the brass in , in about 8-12 different spots against the lead balls . You could also cover the top after that with candle wax for a moisture seal .

Look down this attached thread and you can see a normal roll crimp that should work for you on a brass shell . I have seen pics somewhere of indented shell tops and I believe they were of British manufacture . Anyway I was gonna find a picture and attach it for you but no such luck !

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=151640&an=0&page=4

[Paul Harm]

The problem with crimping brass shotgun shells is after a little while the ends will go bad from the crimping. For those of us who want to keep on using the shells over and over, we don't crimp. That, and finding 8ga brass shells is damn near impossible, so one would never think of crimping because of the cost of those shells. Now if you really wanted brass shells in any gauge I believe a company call Rockey Mountain will make em on a lathe for $7.50 a shell - wouldn't want to crimp them. Charlie ain't crimping his plastic shells let alone brass. I know when I was reloading 45's for Cowboy Action shooting I never worried two much about the life of brass, but shotgun hulls in 10 or 8ga is a bit different.

[CraigThompson]

The problem with crimping brass shotgun shells is after a little while the ends will go bad from the crimping. For those of us who want to keep on using the shells over and over, we don't crimp. That, and finding 8ga brass shells is damn near impossible, so one would never think of crimping because of the cost of those shells. Now if you really wanted brass shells in any gauge I believe a company call Rockey Mountain will make em on a lathe for $7.50 a shell - wouldn't want to crimp them. Charlie ain't crimping his plastic shells let alone brass. I know when I was reloading 45's for Cowboy Action shooting I never worried two much about the life of brass, but shotgun hulls in 10 or 8ga is a bit different.

I saw Rocky Mountains website a couple years back . They also make a handy dandy little setup for loading 8 gauge as well as I remmember .

I think if "I" were ever to get an 8 gauge and progressed to the roundball thing I would eventually try the crimp thing the way the Brits did it if for no other reason then to say I did it !
The roll crimp thats shown in the link I sent doesn't appear to be that detrimental to the life of the hull .

I suspect 10 of Rocky Mountains 8 gauge hulls would be enough for any needs I had .