Parker rebated breech face

[George Lang]

Does anyone have any information on Parkers with rebated breech faces?

[Bill Zachow]

I once owned a lifter 8gauge on a 5 frame that had a rebated breach face. Serial was in the 11,000 range. Even though the gun was beat, I wished I had kept it.

[Brian Dudley]

Does anyone have pictures?

[Dean Romig]

What is meant by "rebated"?

[George Lang]

Breech faces are machined out to accept the rim of the shell.

[Bruce Day]

Breech faces are machined out to accept the rim of the shell.


If that is your definition of rebated, they are all that way, see example below. Have you looked at the Barrels and Chambers chapter of TPS? That work, necessary for all Parker enthusiasts, provides chamber diagrams and measurements. Almost all Parker questions are answered in TPS and 90% of what most of us know who have been around a while, comes from TPS.

What do you think a gun would look if the breech face was NOT machined out to accept the rim of the shell, and how would that work? I'm serious, I don't get it....maybe I'm dense......

I thought you perhaps meant machined out for side clips. And broadly, they are all machined to accommodate extractors or ejectors. That in a sense, is rebated.

[George Lang]

I used wrong terminology. the face of the receiver is what is machined out not the barrel ends. I have a picture but don't know how to post. I sent it Brian Dudley maybe he can post it. I saw one like it on another Parker but that was a lonnnnnnng time ago.

[Bruce Day]

So you are saying the frame standing face is machined out in a circle to receive the cartridge base? I have never seen a Parker like that, hammer or hammerless, but I haven't seen all Parkers. I don't get how that would open and close and not drag and bind. Nothing like that is in TPS.

I've never seen any double like that.

[Dave Suponski]

Rebated breech faces are nothing new. I have seen several English guns with them and at least two Parker shotguns.I believe there was an article on this subject in the early issues of Parker Pages.

[George Lang]

Gun opens and closes fine when loaded no drag at all and shells do not move in chamber?? Functions normally as my other doubles.

[John Truitt]

they are out there. there are several pictures in parker pages.
I have one a ten gauge early lifter short frame with non radius frame/ barrel on a #3 frame.

[George Lang]

The one I posted about is also an early short framed 10 gauge lifter on a #3 frame.

[John Truitt]

my gun dates to 1878. has the wedge forearm

my guess was for brass shells? I don't really know. But she shoots just fine with modern shells as well.

the rebate is deeper at the bottom than at the top of the circle.

[edgarspencer]

Many Jones underlever guns, especially Double rifles, has rebated breech faces. When the under lever was swung, the barrels were free to move forward.

[Brian Dudley]

Here is the photo that George sent me. Machined out recesses in the face of the standing breech.

26950

[George Lang]

Mine also dates to 1878, ser# 113XX. 10 gauge, wedge forearm, #3 frame & also has the tapered rebate which I assume facilitated opening and closing the gun. Guess there's more in the Parker book than we know of.

[Chris Travinski]

What would be the purpose of a rebated breech face?

[David Noble]

I've seen rebated standing breeches on European under lever rifles and shotguns that moved the barrels forward slightly before swinging open. This is the first I've heard of Parker Bros using a rebated breech. Indeed the shorter frame facilitates the moving of the barrel away from the breech face but also requires the action to open further so the shells will clear the top of the frame for loading and extraction. Im thankful they got away from that design!

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

I too have a gun with the rebated breach face When I get home on tuesday I will take a photo of it, as John says mine is deeper at the bottom than at the top of the circle also Gary

[Brian Dudley]

I do believe I have seen English guns where the breech face was the opposite. And the barrels, when closed, would slide back and interlock with the protrusions on the breech as a final locking feature.

[tom leshinsky]

the higher grade Darne French shotguns have this feature.

[John Mazza]

J. D. Dougall had a patent on his "Lockfast" action. (Patented in the mid 1860's - originally for a pinfire cartridge) On the standing breech face, there were two raised bosses/roundels that fit into a recess in the breech of each barrel. The gun had a lever along the right side of the receiver that, when turned down, moved the barrels forward approx. 1/8" and then allowed them to swing down.

Many others did something similar (perhaps upon expiration of earlier patents). Collath drillings have the same basic mechanism as Dougall's, but it uses a very large lever underneath the forearm/foreend to actuate it.

[Jeff Bonadurer]

Maybe it's just from one hundred and thirty five years of shell bases popping against it. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

[wayne goerres]

I am no expert but maby it has something to do with makeing a better gas seal.

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

I really enjoy the things we can learn on this forum. Not only the newby's but the experts too. Thomas

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Here is ser#11856 It is a grade 5 lifter, Photos are not very good took them at night, Gary

[Bruce Day]

I have seen this feature on the Darne guns before, but in those the barrels slide forward to clear the shell from the standing breech.

Gary, upon opening the gun you pictured after firing a shell, does the cartridge base drag against the recess such that the gun is hard to open?

Was this recess in the standing breech only in some lifter actioned Parkers. or did some top action hammer Parkers also have it? I've never seen it in any hammerless Parker and assume no one else has either? Did some T-latch Parkers have it? The ones I have seen did not.

[Dean Romig]

I am no expert but maby it has something to do with makeing a better gas seal.


I think a "better gas seal" was desirable at the front of the chamber in the area of the cone but not at the breech area. Here is a picture of a Grade-6 T/A Parker Bros. hammer gun I photographed extensively for an article I have been working on. It is obvious that relieving the gas pressure at the breech faces was the desired result of this machining.



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[John Truitt]

I have shot mine several times with modern shells. I do not have any brass shells.

I have never noticed any deformity, dragging, hard to open, etc.
The guns functions great.

I did not have to do anything to the head space to make modern (RST) shells fit. They went right in.

I am not really sure what function this feature provides.

[wayne goerres]

Dean I have seen that done in the event of a peirced primer usually on rifles. That is the first shotgun I have seen with this feature. I believe that what we are seeing with these rebated guns was an attempt at what was precived to be a better idea. Perhaps they decided it wasn't needed any longer.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Bruce no the shell does not drag or is it hard to open ,again as John points out this is with modern shells not brass and it is a 10 gauge. Gary