Questions on reloading 2.5" low pressure shells

[Jim Partlow]

I'm a new member trying to figure out this posting
Stuff, so please bare with me. I'm looking for 2.5" low
Pressure loads for 12 gauge. I would like to use Federal
Paper hulls and either WAA12L or WAA12 wads , I have a
Bunch of all three.
I also have two questions: It seems that you would
Have more versatility loading black powder in payload and
Velocity while maintaining low pressures, true or untrue?
Does loading a listed 2.75" load in 2.5" hull with roll crimp
Change pressure ?
I have a good deal of experience loading short shells,
Black powder as well as modern shot shell loads. The guns
I'll be using 12 gauge loads in are 1900's vintage Levefer
And a Ithaca crass, both Damascus .
I also load short 16 gauge for two Parkers and one Baker.

[Eric Eis]

I think Paul Harm loads 2 1/2 12 ga shells might want to send him a pm

[Bruce Day]

Responding specifically to the 16ga Parker issue, following is what is left of a Parker patterning tag for a 1921 16ga showing recommended pattern load at 1oz and 2 1/2 dre. Prior to about 1915, the recommended 16ga load was 7/8oz, 2 1/2 dre, however, the barrel and chamber dimensions did not change when Parker increased the shot load recommendation.

Numerous Parker pattern tags for 12ga state that the chamber length is 2 5/8. Later tags state "Use 2 3/4" shells". The standard 12ga pattern load was 1 1/8oz at 3 dre, multiple tags available for posting upon request. The load gave an approximate muzzle velocity of 1200fps, which readers will recognize as the standard trap load for the last 100 years.

The patterning tags do not differ between fluid steel and Damascus barrels.

I have several Parker 16's, including one Damascus and two fluid steel. All three have chamber lengths of 2 9/16, the latest one being marked "USE 2 3/4" shells".

Parker transitioned from black powder to smokeless powder in 1891-2. Most post 1895 Parker had patterning tags which provide in diagonal red statement, as does this one: " This gun was Targeted with Smokeless Powder".

[Jim Partlow]

What is a pm?

[charlie cleveland]

it means privite message...you ll get use to the lingo before long...you can click on a name on a thread that who ever posts and it will let you send a p m to a person... do you load a lot of black powder shells..i do not load many of them myself on acount of the clean up...paul harm does load the 2 1/2 inch shells he will pitch in here shortly i m sure.. charlie

[Jim Partlow]

Thanks Charlie. I'll keep working at this.

[Eric Eis]

Jim try this email address.

http://www.phforge.com/

[Jim Partlow]

Is that a members E-mail? Thanks Jim

[Eric Eis]

Is that a members E-mail? Thanks Jim

Paul Harm's email and possible website also

[Paul Harm]

Jim, glad you joined. First, you can shoot 2 3/4" shells in a gun with 2 1/2" chambers - the pressure won't go up all that much. The Federal shell is straight walled and the Win or Rem shells are tapered wall. If you use the WAA12 wads in a Federal hull you'll get a loose fit and really low pressure with a lot of bloopers. I have about 2000 Federal papers and use Claybusters wads meant for the Federal shell. I don't believe pressure will go up by going to 2 1/2" and roll crimp [ put have no proof one way or the other ] because everything I've read says a roll crimp has less pressure than a star crimp, everything else being the equal. When using BP I've always used paper wads because the plastic wads will melt in the barrel and leave quite a mess you don't want to clean [ don't ask - I just know ]. With the paper wads from www.circlefly.com you can adjust your wad column height for length of shell or load. The paper wads can also be used with nitro powders and you'll usually get about 10% less pressure [ not always - but never more pressure ]. Yes the pressure will be low with BP, but there are many low pressure loads using nitro. I've shot BP or nitro in my damascus guns for years. If you want some low pressure loads just ask, many of the guys will be happy to tell you what they use. Hope this helps - any questions, don't be afraid to ask - you'll get lots of replies. Paul

[Paul Harm]

Claybuster is at www.claybusterwads.com or call them at 1=800-922-6287- they say the Rem or Win clone wads can be used in the Fed hull, but don't do it - get the CB4118 - 1 1/4oz wad, CB2118- 1 1/8oz, CB2100 - 7/8 or 1oz wad. The CB wads are way cheaper than factory wads. Your WAA12L is a 7/8 or 1oz wad - in CB it's a CB4100-12B, and the WAA12 is a 1 or 1 1/8oz wad - in CB it's a CB1118-12. If buying the fiber wads get a .125 nitro card for over powder, a 1/2" cushion wad that you can cut or add a second one if needed, and the thin .028 overshot wad if roll crimping. Good luck - Paul

[Jim Partlow]

Thanks for the input. Do you know the pressures

1900 era smokeless loads produced.
Black powder loads ran 3100psi to around
6000psi for a 3.75 dram load depending
On amount of shot (according to Lyman
Black powder reloading manual).
I understand that using 2.75 in 2.5"
Chamber increases psi 200-300. But then
What would I do with my antique roll crimper?
I'll probably start with bp it seems that
That it will be easier, safer and cheaper. Plus
I kind of like the smoke!
Last year I took a 10 gauge Elsie to south
Dakota for pheasants. Used brass shells
123 grains of Goex and 1.5 ounces magnum
6 shot. Had a ball, and even got some birds.