A. W. du Bray ordered guns - Personal use or for customers

[John Gardner]

I have come across a 12 DHE from 1906 that was ordered by du Bray in Cincinnati and shipped to same.

Is there a way to tell if this was one of his personal guns, I am sure he must of had a full quiver of them and I have read he was partial to 20's, or if this was just one of many he ordered for clients as a salesman for Parker?

[Dean Romig]

DuBray was a Parker salesman and ordered a great many Parkers. It would be extremely difficult to determine if he may have kept it for himself... but not impossible. But you know all that.

[John Davis]

I actually own a Parker Bros. envelope, personalized for duBray. Handwritten on the outside is "Gun Information", "A. W. du Bray's Consigned & personal property guns", "Sept 30/26". This is written in du Bray's hand. It contained a list of guns he had in inventory at the hotel he lived in in San Fransisco. I purchased the envelope from Ed before he passed. Ed had given the original list to one of du Bray's relatives but kept a copy, which was included with the envelope. Pretty cool item. John

[Daryl Corona]

Nice. Any chance of you scanning the letter for us to enjoy?

[John Davis]

I'll try.

[John Gardner]

Thanks Dean, John,
After searching some older threads I'll pickup a copy of Knights of the Trigger to see if du Bray had recorded preferences in gun configuration.

The specifics on the DHE 12 I have from 1906 are: 30" Titanic Steel Barrels, 'Special Instructions ' per Parker letter were: 2" pitch, cast off at heel of 1/4" and 3/8" cast off toe, to shoot extra No. 6 shot, safety non automatic, 2 3/4" chambers, RH pull 3 1/2 lbs, LH pull 4 lbs, with requested weight between 7 lbs 6 oz. to 7 lbs 8 oz.

Stock configuration is a straight grip , LOP 13 5/8" Drop at heel 2 ' and Drop at comb 1 3/8"
Also trying to load the Parker Pages story on a du Bray gun but having difficulties.

[John Gardner]

I'll try.

Wow John, Mission accomplished!

My gun is number 136166 and it is listed on your copy of the du Bray inventory letter. How cool is that?

This is literally one of the first two Parker's I ever saw and I bought it locally on Vancouver Island. To me it was 'just OK' as it is well worn and I was thinking of trading it off down the road but not now. Most of my guns (Parker or not) are all over 100 years old as I much prefer a gun with history. Talk about lightening quick provenance - Thank you Gentlemen!

I will try to post some pictures of the DHE later today.

[John Davis]

John G., In the words of my 12 yr. old daughter, Way Cool. Several years ago I purchased a 12 gauge DH off of Guns America. Wasn't much to look at but the price was very right. Turned out to have belonged to Fred Kimble and the rest is history. Love those guns with provenance. Sounds like you've got a keeper.

[John Gardner]

Again my thanks John. Here is a neat article on Kimble if you have not already seen it.
http://www.traphof.org/People-Stories/meet-fred-kimble.html

[Mills Morrison]

John Davis' book is highly recommended for those who don't have it . . And while supplies last

[John Davis]

John, the Peoria Black Bird shipping label, oil painting and score card pictured on the Trap Shooting Hall of Fame web-site bio of Fred Kimble are all part of my Kimble collection. (I purchased the score card and shipping label from our very own Destry Hoffard) I also have three other Fred Kimble oil paintings and a neat little G grade 16 gauge that was his. I may have gotten a little carried away. My wife describes it as an obsession. Bill Murphy will affirm that we're still looking for Kimble's B grade, 10 gauge, with 33 inch barrels. One of our Holy Grails. John Davis

[Dean Romig]

On John Davis' listings of Parker guns in A.W. duBray's inventory it would appear that those with a line drawn through had been sold as there is a name of a person or Ellery Arms Co. written in the far right column.

What is your take on this John?

[Bill Murphy]

Ellery Arms Company was in San Francisco. Arthur DuBray's W & C Scott sidelock pigeon gun was for sale at the Eastern Panhandle Shoot last weekend. It was a little pricey at $12000 asking, but a really nice full sidelock with crystal indicators. DuBray's name was engraved on the rib.

[Rich Anderson]

Bill,
Maybe that Scott will be at Hausmanns. You can have another crack at it. I thought the dealer said he was asking $14K but would take $12K. It's a nice gun but I'm full up on those big guns:)

[Ed Blake]

Of the guns listed in John's PDF, a remarkable number are 34" guns. Long barrels were in vogue with serious shootists of the day.

[Larry Frey]

The specifics on the DHE 12 I have from 1906 are: 30" Titanic Steel Barrels, 'Special Instructions ' per Parker letter were: 2" pitch, cast off at heel of 1/4" and 3/8" cast off toe, to shoot extra No. 6 shot, safety non automatic, 2 3/4" chambers, RH pull 3 1/2 lbs, LH pull 4 lbs, with requested weight between 7 lbs 6 oz. to 7 lbs 8 oz.

Stock configuration is a straight grip , LOP 13 5/8" Drop at heel 2 ' and Drop at comb 1 3/8"
Also trying to load the Parker Pages story on a du Bray gun but having difficulties.

John,
I have a DHE 16 gauge that was ordered by du Bray in 1906 that shares many of the same specifications as yours. It has 30" Titanic barrels and has a straight grip stock that letters at 13 1/2" lop, 1 1/2" dac, and 2" dah. The letter also specifies 1/4" cast at heel and 3/8" at the toe with 2 7/8" chambers and a non-auto safety.

This gun was ordered for a gentleman in Richmond Virginia and not a personal gun of du Bray. Perhaps these dimensions were recommended by the salesman or just typical for that period of time.

[John Gardner]

That is extremely neat to have that kind of complexity and diversity in your Kimble collection John. Isn't OCD mandatory for a collector?! I know that fear certainly is as I still have about half of my 'stuff' under the better half's radar...or at least she let's me think it is. If you get a chance it would be neat to see pictures of your paintings.

[John Gardner]

That's a good point Larry it makes sense that a common set of specifications were the general 'go to' dimensions that a salesman would recommend to a shooter based on his/her physical stature. Our Company does the same thing today for general inquiries from clients for their personal diving equipment. Without John D's letter it would have been very hard to assign the DHE to du Bray. Also good sleuthing on Dean's part to see where the gun headed next.

[John Gardner]

Looking closer at your list John it may be that most of these guns were primarily salesman samples and du Bray refreshed them as needed. I can't quite make out the writing in front of 136166 "turned over to ----- pay 1910"? Thoughts? I am waiting for return of better half or she that takes the pictures.

[Ed Blake]

Larry, was your gun shipped to Harris, Flippen Sporting Goods in Richmond by chance?

[Dave Suponski]

John, This is great stuff. What I find interesting is the two Trojans listed with serial numbers in the 158,000 range. According to TPS the first stock book entry for a Trojan grade gun is 159,374. Early release salesmans sample's?

[Daryl Corona]

John;
In the words of your daughter that is "way cool". Thanks very much for sharing. Your book is wonderful and I feel honored to have a signed copy. Does that make it a collectors item?:bowdown:

[John Davis]

Daryl, when I die it will probably be worth a small fortune. Hoping you'll have to wait a very long time to cash in. John

[Larry Frey]

Larry, was your gun shipped to Harris, Flippen Sporting Goods in Richmond by chance?

John,
This whole thread is turning out to be "way cool".

Ed,
Not only was it sent to Harris Flippen I just noticed it (#139589) is also listed in John's letter.

[Dean Romig]

Waaaay Cool!!!

[John Gardner]

25162
I will see if I can get the other pic file size down.

[John Gardner]

Here are the balance. As you can see it is a heavily used 12 DHE but it still shoots better than I do. Many thanks to all and glad to see John's letter lead to new discoveries with others as well. Cheers JG25168

[Ed Blake]

John,
This whole thread is turning out to be "way cool".

Ed,
Not only was it sent to Harris Flippen I just noticed it (#139589) is also listed in John's letter.

Thanks Larry. Harris, Flippen operated at the corner of 6th and Main here in Richmond for a long time. It closed in the late '80s, I think. They sold a lot of Parker guns. A local guy for years would show up at every gunshow here with a 32" SG DH with a funky stock. The profile looked like a Reading school flintlock, big roman nose bend in the butt. I threw it up to my shoulder one time and it fit perfect. Doc Truitt and I did a little research and it turned out it came from Harris, Flippen and went back to PB a number of times for this and that. The guy wanted way, way too much money for it. Cool gun nevertheless.

[Bill Murphy]

The Trojans that are earlier than the earliest Serialization Book entries are probably just production guns. There are no stock books available for research from serial number 150,698 to 159,361. The way to find the status of DuBray's Trojans is to order a PGCA letter on them and get whatever information would be available from the order books. Finding the earliest Trojan would be a matter of finding the gun. Another way would be to allow a research project to examine the order books of that era, page by page, back to front, until no Trojans appear. Not a daunting project for an interested researcher.

[Eddie Kay]

My DH was one of 5 "Pigeon" gun's ordered Nov,1904 by the Capt. to go to Louisville,Ky.Mine must have been cancelled as it was sold in the NYC store year's later or used by employees. http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss351/sqweeler/Parkerinfo002_zps8be9bb5c.jpg (http://s591.photobucket.com/user/sqweeler/media/Parkerinfo002_zps8be9bb5c.jpg.html) http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss351/sqweeler/Parkerinfo001_zps4158484b.jpg (http://s591.photobucket.com/user/sqweeler/media/Parkerinfo001_zps4158484b.jpg.html)

[Bill Murphy]

This is the thread with the DuBray inventory of sample guns. Enjoy.

[Mills Morrison]

My VH 16 is not on the list. Shipped to Anderson Hardware in Atlanta with order placed by Du Bray. Maybe the list only has ones he sold directly

[Mills Morrison]

. . . And thanks to Bill for pointing this thread out.