B Grade 8 GA

[Jonathan Engle]

Hi all. I had a wonderful time meeting a few of y'all up at The Eastern Panhandle SxS shoot today at Prospect Hall. Thank to everyone who made me feel welcome. What a suprise it was when the Parker Association was kind enough to display the gun at the Parker booth.

As some of you may know I have had more to contribute the the A.H. Fox Collectors site but I think this gun deserves some attention and I would love to learn more about it and Parkers in general. I believe it is a grade 5/B, #7 frame, 34" barrels, and the serial number returns 1893. I have not put it on a scale but she is a BIG BIG girl. If any of my terminology is incorrect please correct me. I would love to hear any comments or information y'all care to share. I did change the serial number but if any one here would like to know what it is please PM me.

All the best,
Jonathan
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[Rick Losey]

Wow

Welcome Jonathan, and thank you for the pictures.

Did you enter the serial number on the link from the home page to see if records still exist?

That would be a great gun to get a letter on.

[George Lander]

WOW!!!

George

[Jonathan Engle]

Wow

Welcome Jonathan, and thank you for the pictures.

Did you enter the serial number on the link from the home page to see if records still exist?

That would be a great gun to get a letter on.

Sure did. The PGCA says they have records. I am very curious myself.

[Thomas L. Benson Sr.]

In my Dreams I once owned this gun. If you would be so kind could you tell how you came in possession of this beauty.Thomas

[Mark Ouellette]

Gentlemen,

The Crusty Old Basxxxx and I drove 500 to get to the Eastern Panhandle shoot and seeing and holding that high condition B Grade 8 gauge Parker was worth the trip by itself. Then there were Johnathon's half dozen Burt Becker built AH Fox guns!

Oh boy did you guys miss out!

Mark

[Daryl Corona]

Jonathan;
It was a real pleasure meeting and shooting with you yesterday. Thanks so very much for bringing your collection of Becker Foxes and that one of a kind, gorgeous grade 5, 8 gauge hammer gun. Wow! Also, thanks for letting me shoot that great CE. Please try to attend more of our SxS events as you are a fine gentleman and a great addition to our group.
Daryl

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Jonathan, That is a beautiful 8 ga gun in grade five, always wondered if one was out there some where now I know, would have loved to shoulder that gun thanks for sharing! Gary

[Bill Murphy]

Youse guys can have much more information on Jonathan's family waterfowlers by snooping around the Fox site. This is the only Grade 5 top action eight other than the Dr. Seward Webb gun well described in Larry Baer's books. When we opened the Parker records in 1998, we found that Dr. Webb had ordered three high grade waterfowlers in eight, ten, and twelve gauge, consecutive serial numbers. We thought the Webb guns were the greatest collection of duck guns ever made, until we met Jonathan. Thanks for bringing them out, Jonathan. A PGCA letter is in the works.

[Mills Morrison]

:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

Words do no justice. That is one fine gun.

I would love to see some quality photos of the Seward Webb 8 gauge. The old black and white photos in Baer's book are amazing enough. Actually, my parents are friends with a Seward Webb descendant, but I don't think he has any of the three Parkers.

[Eldon Goddard]

It would be something to see that gun in person. I am assuming this and the aforementioned Dr. Seward Webb 8 gauge are the highest grade 8 gauges made by Parker.

[charlie cleveland]

sounds like a mighty nice 8 ga in ahigh grade...bet she would make a good turkey gun..do you ever shoot the 8 ga johnathan..could you post a picture of this 8 ga i m sure others would like to see it especially me...charlie

[Mark Landskov]

Uff Da!

[Jonathan Engle]

sounds like a mighty nice 8 ga in ahigh grade...bet she would make a good turkey gun..do you ever shoot the 8 ga johnathan..could you post a picture of this 8 ga i m sure others would like to see it especially me...charlie

Hi Charlie look on page one of this thread. You may have to be signed in to see the pics. I have never shot this one.

Thanks,
Jonathan

[Jonathan Engle]

In my Dreams I once owned this gun. If you would be so kind could you tell how you came in possession of this beauty.Thomas

Hi Thomas,

This gun has been passed down three generations.

Thanks,
Jonathan

[Jonathan Engle]

Youse guys can have much more information on Jonathan's family waterfowlers by snooping around the Fox site. This is the only Grade 5 top action eight other than the Dr. Seward Webb gun well described in Larry Baer's books. When we opened the Parker records in 1998, we found that Dr. Webb had ordered three high grade waterfowlers in eight, ten, and twelve gauge, consecutive serial numbers. We thought the Webb guns were the greatest collection of duck guns ever made, until we met Jonathan. Thanks for bringing them out, Jonathan. A PGCA letter is in the works.

Mr. Murphy,

Thank you for your kind words. It was a pleasure meeting you yesterday! I am really looking forward to seeing the letter. I just joined the PGCA and will get the request and check in the mail ASAP.

Thank you again,
Jonathan

[paul stafford jr]

that's the first high grade 8 gauge I have ever seen. thank you for the pictures. marks got a few hammer guns that would look good with that one, that would make a great picture

[Richard Flanders]

Unbelievable! What next, eh? What a stunning gun. Looks like it's never been fired. Gorgeous.

[Bill Murphy]

There is a great article on Seward Webb's estate, Shelbourne, in the May 1998 Smithsonian Magazine. You can find it on google. His family has quite a NE history. The Webb gun is a 36 incher. The Reuter gun is only 34". Yesterday we displayed the only 30" hammerless eight that Parker ever made. It is a petite little D Grade. We were in eight gauge heaven this weekend.

[Gary Carmichael Sr]

Sounds like all had a great time!

[charlie cleveland]

some people have all the luck getting to see all them 8 ga s im jelous... bill reckon how much that petite 8 ga weighs...

[Bill Murphy]

It's a ten plus pounder, the lightest Parker eight I've ever seen or weighed. The barrels are only marked 6-9, a pound and a half lighter than some Parker eights I own or have inspected. Such a quail gun.

[charlie cleveland]

thats the lightest 8 ga i ve ever heard of bill...should have asked what is the frame size of this petite 8 ga...charlie

[Bill Murphy]

It's a standard #6 frame gun. The barrels are struck a bit more than normal eight gauge Parker barrels.

[Mark Ouellette]

Gentlemen,

I wasn't prepared for studio photography at the Eastern Panhandle SxS Shoot but when Jonathan Engle's Great-Great Grandfather's B Grade 8 Gauge appeared I took a couple snapshots. I hope you like them.

Mark

[Craig Larter]

Oh my---I am speechless.

[Rich Anderson]

It was worth the trip just to see and handel such a great gun

[charlie cleveland]

this grade b 8 ga really makes my parkers look bad...some lovely gun this is i can see its really been well pampered in its life...one nice gun... charlie

[Mills Morrison]

Charlie, Good use does not look bad.

[Jonathan Engle]

Gentlemen,

I wasn't prepared for studio photography at the Eastern Panhandle SxS Shoot but when Jonathan Engle's Great-Great Grandfather's B Grade 8 Gauge appeared I took a couple snapshots. I hope you like them.

Mark

Nice shots Mark! Thanks for posting them. Could you email me a couple of those?

Thanks,
Jonathan

[Daryl Corona]

It was worth the trip just to see and handel such a great gun

You got that right Rich. To me it was better than the Czar's gun. Great photos Mark, thanks.

[Bill Murphy]

There is only one 34" hammer B Grade eight. There are two Czar's guns. The Engle eight is twice as rare as the Czar's gun and much prettier. I wonder who owns the Seward Webb guns today? It is my understanding that Larry Baer owned the eight at one time but sold it.

[Jonathan Engle]

There is only one 34" hammer B Grade eight. There are two Czar's guns. The Engle eight is twice as rare as the Czar's gun and much prettier. I wonder who owns the Seward Webb guns today? It is my understanding that Larry Baer owned the eight at one time but sold it.

Nice Mr. Murphy!

That check got in the mail for the letter Monday. I can wait to learn more!

Jonathan

[greg conomos]

Well???

[David Noble]

Perhaps Jonathan's posts on this and other forums, plus the exposure that his inherited guns got while being displayed at a couple of venues, resulted in more attention than he ever anticipated. I would imagine he was inundated with emails, questions, offers, unexpected visitors and even some threats. I hope that is not the case.
Has anyone checked the other gun websites to see if he is active there?

[Mills Morrison]

He had some amazing guns. He had several posts on the Fox forum and I have not seen him post there in awhile.

[Bill Murphy]

Even though the great Parker has long time provenance in the family of Jonathan's wife, the Reuters, the gun was originally sold to E.K. Tryon in Philadelphia, a large volume sporting goods outlet. As they say, "Nothing to see here." Those interested in the Reuter Foxes should search the Fox Collectors website for some very interesting information.

[greg conomos]

If you google Reuters Fox Gun you get all sorts of interesting hits....

[Jonathan Engle]

Hi all,

Im still here, alive and well. I had this gun appraised recently and let me tell you that initial investment of $235 has done well over the years! Below is some information from the Factory Letter. Enjoy!

Parker shotgun, serial number 77xxx, was sent to the World's Fair Colombian Exposition in Chicago IL on March 17,1893. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 34, it was a Quality B, top action hammer gun, 8-gauge. It featured Damascus steel barrels with a length of 34 inches. The price was $200.00 plus $35.00 for 8ga. barrels. According to Parker Bros. Stock Book No. 27, the stock configuration was a capped pistol grip and its specifications were: Length of Pull: 14 1/4", Drop at Heel: 2 1/2,Weight: 7 pounds and 12 ounces. The chokes cannot be determined. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 35, the gun was returned from the World's Fair Colombian Exposition on December 5, 1893. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 36, the gun was consigned on January 27, 1894 and shipped on January 29,1894 to E.K. Tryon Jr. & Co, of Philadelphia Pa. The price was $235.00.

This is what the appraisal said.....

Ultra Rare Parker Brother Gun Company B Grade 8 Top Lever Bore Hammer Double Shotgun with Original Case made for the Columbian Exposition, Circa 1893. 34” barrels engraved on the rib “Parker Bros. Makers, Meridan, Conn. Damascus Steel”. Game scene and scroll checkered fancy grade walnut pistol grip stock and forend. Engraved skeleton steel butt plate and shield shaped un-engraved gold escutcheon at the wrist. Fancy gold butt cap. All original and complete. Superb condition overall with most of the original color case hardening and brown Damascus barrel finish. Stock and forend with the original finish and excellent condition. Mint bores and perfect working order. Essentially unused and kept in dry storage for many years. Factory Letter states it was shipped on March 17, 1893 to the world’s Fair Columbian Exposition in Chicago, Illinois (as a factory display piece) and shipped back to the factory in December 1893. It was consigned on January 27, 1894 to Tryon & Co. Philadelphia, PA. at a price of $235. The accompanying green baize lined leather luggage case is contemporary to the gun and possibly a factory original. The brass plate on the lid exterior is engraved “P. Roberts, Jr./ Philadelphia”. Interior lining very good and all original. Three piece B.G.I Co. 3-piece 8 Bore cleaning rod. Spectacular in every respect. One of possibly two “B” grade 8 bore hammer guns made.

[greg conomos]

Am I missing something or does 7/12 seem awfully light for such a gun?

[Daryl Corona]

Am I missing something or does 7/12 seem awfully light for such a gun?

Must be a typo because I and a few others handled this beautiful gun and it surely weighed more than that. Don't quote me on this but I seem to remember it being around 10lbs. or so, but I could be wrong. I'm sure one of the other members here will chime in with their thoughts.

[Mills Morrison]

That information is amazing. What is more amazing though are the photos of the actual gun. I bet it is something in real life.

[Jonathan Engle]

Am I missing something or does 7/12 seem awfully light for such a gun?

You sir are right. That is what the letter said. Maybe Mr. Bishop can clear this up. I will put it on a scale and see. Maybe there is a 1 missing? :) She is certainly a 10+ pound girl.

[Mills Morrison]

I was thinking a "1" must be missing as well.

[Chuck Bishop]

Well, I'm glad there is only 1 month to go this year. I've just made the third mistake for this year:banghead:

The Order Books give no requested weight. The Stock Book for this gun is very faint in the area of stock dimensions and weight however I'm sure the gun weight is 12lbs +, maybe 12lbs 12 ounces. The stock dimensions are even harder to read. The LOP could be 14 1/4 or 14 3/8, or 14 3/4 and the DAH ic either 2 1/4" or 3 1/4".

Jonathan, give me some help here. Measure the length of pull from the front trigger to the middle of the butt and measure the drop at heel. You can put a ruler on the rib and extended it to the butt and take the measurement. Also weigh the gun.

If you can give me the measurements and weight, I can send you a more accurate letter.

Thanks, Chuck

[Bill Murphy]

My two friends, Jonathan and Chuck, would make a great two man Vaudeville team.

[charlie cleveland]

that 7/12 sounds like the weight of the barrel not the gun itself..charlie

[David Hamilton]

Just weighing in... David

[ForrestArmstrong]

Wonderful cannon !