Shells for damascus guns

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I may soon have a damascus gun, short chambers of course, and wonder if I really need to load 2 1/2 " shells. I already load and shoot mostly lower pressure, 7/8 oz, and under 1200 fps in 12, 16 , and 20. Are these suitable? I have also thought of getting some PB powder as it seeems to produce lower pressures. I prefer to not have to buy special shells for just that one gun.
Yes, the barrels have been checked out and deemed to be in very good shape. One of the guns is a 16,the other a 20.
What do you think, and what do you shoot? Thanks
Harold

[Mark Ouellette]

Harold,

Shooting longer shells in short chambers, especially those with very short forcing cones, can cause excessive recoil. Interestingly the pressures may not rise significantly.

Mark

[David Holes]

I shoot RST's in my short chambered 16's. The price is right and seems like the right thing to do.

[charlie cleveland]

i just shoot regular store bought in my old damascus guns except for the 8 ga and special loads for the other guns..never had any trouble barrel wise or stock wise.... charlie

[Rich Anderson]

Harold I shoot several damascuss gun but shoot all 2 1/2 inch shells regardless of what type of barrel steel. You can use low pressure 2 3/4 inch shells in 20 & 16 and several people do load them. I just prefer the shorter shell but its a personal preferance. For your damascuss gun order a case of RST (I would go 2 1/2 inch) and enjoy the gun and the absence of recoil. Your not a clay target shooter so a mixed case of RST's will last you a long time....even in Channing:rotf:

[John Campbell]

You should be fine with the cartridges you load. I've used 7/8 oz 1100 fps loads for sporting clays for more than a decade. They work fine in 2 3/4 inch AA cases. Long ago Sherman Bell did pressure testing on short chambered guns with 2 3/4 inch shells and the pressure increase was negligible. And that has been my experience as well.

As for recoil, that's more a factor of gun weight and payload than anything else. I've never been cognizant of any added recoil with 2 3/4 inch cases.

[edgarspencer]

I make it a practice to shoot what the gun was originally intended to shoot. It's too easy for the odd stoutly loaded 2 3/4" shell to get mixed in with your others. For the odd occasions that my damacus and twist guns get used, the price of a flat or two of RST is cheap insurance. I started using Maxi-Lites in 2 1/2" and like them so much I also use them in 2 3/4".
One of my twist barreled guns had a minor bulge at the forcing cone, and while it was easily repaired, I can only assume it was the result of using a longer-than-intended shell, and probably paper.

[Rich Anderson]

I make it a practice to shoot what the gun was originally intended to shoot. .

Never a problem using the 2 1/2 inch shell...and there cool:)

[Paul Harm]

If you have a Mec 600jr it's no problem to load any length shell you want. You can buy their short kit or just make up a spacer yourself. The main bar is also adjustable for height.

[Jeff Christie]

I make it a practice to shoot what the gun was originally intended to shoot. It's too easy for the odd stoutly loaded 2 3/4" shell to get mixed in with your others. For the odd occasions that my damacus and twist guns get used, the price of a flat or two of RST is cheap insurance. I started using Maxi-Lites in 2 1/2" and like them so much I also use them in 2 3/4".
One of my twist barreled guns had a minor bulge at the forcing cone, and while it was easily repaired, I can only assume it was the result of using a longer-than-intended shell, and probably paper.

I have a nice little PH 12 twist (1 frame) that has the very same problem- a slight bulge at the forcing cone of the left barrel. You indicated you had it "easily" repaired. Who did the work? I have chosen to ignore mine; shoot it with light loads; and not worry about it. I would appreciate the benefit of your thoughts

[edgarspencer]

I did. I made a mandrel and used a brass block and ball peen hammer.

[Jack Kuzepski]

You know, another option to loading short shells is to use the Hartin crimp, no need for a short kit, no need to change your press and minor rise in pressure.

Jack Kuzepski

[charlie cleveland]

jack what is the hartin crimp... charlie

[Harold Lee Pickens]

I have not heard of the Hartin crimp.
This thread has produced some interesting responses and pm's. Some will only shoot short shells and others seem to feel that any moderate-low load should be safe and site info/studies.

[Jack Kuzepski]

The Hartin crimp was developed by a guy with that last name. What you do is take your normal 2-3/4" hull and cut it down to 2-5/8" and load it as you normaly would. After dropping the shot charge you place an over the top wad on the shot charge. Then place the hull under the crimp starter and start the short crimp; then move the hull to the finish crimp station and finish the crimp. The top wad just keeps the shot in place where a hole would normaly be in the crimp. It takes the place of the short kit. You may have to adjust the finish crimp die to force the crimp slightly deeper to get a secure hold on the top wad.
I've tried cutting Federal hulls and others to 2-5/8", loading them and use a spacer on the crimping stations where a top wad would not be needed. It does work, BUT by moving the crimp shoulder lower on the hull is a bit iffy as the hull has a bit of "memory" of being straight and the crimps want to come undone or at least open enough (at times) to lose shot and/or pressure holding the load back and get bloopers.

Jack Kuzepski

[John Campbell]

Jack is wise.
But shooting 2 3/4 inch skivved mouth hulls is the practical solution to 99% of this. That means AA, STS, etc. NOT Federal plastic or paper. No adjustments needed. Except of the psychological.
Of course Sherman Bell and Tom Armbrust could have been full of baloney...

[george simmans]

Hi All,
I have a damascus barrelled 2 1/2 inch hammer gun 1905 westley richards that has sebsequently been nitro proofed to three tons (uk Tons) say 6500 psi.

I have searched for weeks and bought various books to find loads that are under 3 tons and so far no go.

I would much appreciate any help to find such load recipes.

In australia we cant buy low pressure loads at all, and most bought in from th uk for the edwardian vintagers club are way above three tons

have ordered a ponsness from ballistic products but even they have nothing that low pressure.
checked all the powder manufacurers and have found some low pressure 2 3/4 loads.. does anybody know if they can just be loaded into a 2 1/2 inch with smaller wads.
thanks george

[charlie cleveland]

george you can put the 2 3/4 inch loads in the 2 1/2 inch hull just figure out the rite spaceing... charlie