Late model Fox Sterlingworth

[allen newell]

I am still looking at this Fox Sterlingworth 20 ga double w/26" bbls. The serial number happens to be 270633. It is a Savage Arms/Utica SW. I can't find a serial number table for this double without paying someone some $ for the info. But I'm guessing it is a very late model mid 1940's production gun. Does this sound about right?
Gun is tight as a drum. Stock was cut to 13 1/2 " and has a pachmayer recoil pad installed making the LOP a little more than 14 1/4 inches or so. The wood on the gun is good, no cracks, splits, chips etc. Metal work is good. Barrels ring ok. Checkering shows wear. The shop owner has it tagged at $1,200 but continues to ask me to make him an offer which I will probably do after another appointment I have in the area of the shop (my tax accountant! argh!). I'd like to pick it up for around $900 but not more than $1K. What I don't know is whether being a late model Savage Arms model SW makes it worth the money. Any feedback? I have no pics and didn't want to take the camera into his shop.
I'm thinking that if the $ for this is in the ballpark, that it would make a nice double for my oldest grandson who in a couple of years would be able to handle it as he gets into more shooting with Papa. A brief stay at the Bachelder Hospital for wayward doubles to do a little cleaning and rejuvination would be in order.

I'll await those of you who are more familiar with SW's than I for your comments and suggestions.:bowdown:

[Greg Baehman]

It looks like it left the factory in about 1938 according to this chart:

http://doublegunshop.com/dgsnos1.htm. Scroll down to the 20-ga. Sterlingworths.

Utica-built Sterlingworths typically have a lower perceived value than those that were Philly-built. It has been reported that the build quality also went downhill in the latter years of production and some of the refinement (a more bulbous forend, funky looking trigger guard, no grip cap, etc.) usually associated with Philly guns was also lacking. Having said this, they have 2 3/4" chambers and likely have higher, more modern dimensions than the earlier guns have. Without good pics it's impossible to say with any degree of certainty what the value is, but you rarely find a 20-ga. Sterlingworth in decent condition offered for much less than $1200 anymore.

[allen newell]

Greg, thanks for the info. I looked at the table, does the table encompass Savage Arms/Utica SW's? From this chart it would appear that SW's ceased production around 1940? I know Savage came out with a later SW B model.

[Greg Baehman]

Yes, it does and I believe they ceased production in 1942. "Researcher" will probably see this thread and maybe, if you're lucky, he'll post his canned story on the Sterlingworth.

[wayne goerres]

shoot him a low ball offer of around 700.00. 1200.00 is way high for the gun you are discribing. He will probable counter at 800.00 to 900.00. IMHO Values plummit if it isnt a philly

[tom tutwiler]

Sounds like a thousand dollar gun at most unless the case color is outta this world. The late Foxes were the least desirable because of the issues already mentioned by previous posters. Those late 20 gauges make nice shooters unless they are muzzlelight. Those made late in the game without the capped pistol grip weighed more. Maybe that's why they added that bulbous forearm to make them balance better. I think the late ones are just uglier, but most folks can shoot them pretty well.

[allen newell]

The next time i'm in the shop, I'll see if the owner will allow me to take a few photos (for research of course) and post them. The frame has been blued on this gun. I wouldn't describe the forend as bulbous but pic will tell for sure. I have to see my tax accountant again tomorrow (argh@#) and the gun shop is in the same area so maybe I can swing by.

[allen newell]

I'm going to pass on this SW. Too much uncertainty and I'll hold out for something better I can pick up for my grandson - there's plenty of time. Some of you have inquired about the shop in case I decide not to pursue this double.

If someone wants to pursue this 20 ga SW, send me a pm and I'll give you the contact info.

[Harold Lee Pickens]

It is hard to find any 20 SW for less than a grand unless it is in poor shape. One of the good things about the Savage Foxes is that they are 2 3/4" chambered, and they also generally have more modern dimensions. I have 2 SW16's and 2 SW 20's, all savage era ,and would not consider any offer less than a thousand.
(no, they are not for sale)

[Daryl Corona]

I agree Harold. I have a number of Foxes, all Philly guns except for 2, a 16 and a 20 SW. They may not have the mantra of a Philly gun but they still are a very well built great handling smallbore SxS. With my 16 SW Deluxe this past season in So. Dakota I managed a true double on wild roosters. No doubles pin for that one but as they say "A Fox gets the game".

[Harold Lee Pickens]

Daryl, I too have 16 SW deluxe with the grip cap , but unfortunately the mid ivory bead was missing when I bought it (back in the mid '80'sfor $300).
I've shot alot of birds with that gun, but more often now carry a Savage SW16 that someone cut the barrels back too 26 1/2 and has a very nice replacement stock. I think I shoot it better. I have a late production SW20 that has 60% or better case colrs and a nicer than normal wood--it is definately a $1200 or better gun.

[Greg Baehman]

This gun was described as:

"Gun is tight as a drum. Stock was cut to 13 1/2 " and has a pachmayer recoil pad installed making the LOP a little more than 14 1/4 inches or so. The wood on the gun is good, no cracks, splits, chips etc. Metal work is good. Barrels ring ok. Checkering shows wear."

One respondent said "$1200 is way high for the gun you are describing" and another said "sounds like a thousand dollar gun at most" before we found out that it had its frame reblued.

I must be living in a different universe as I cannot find a 20-ga. Sterlingworth, Utica or Philly, in similar or better condition as the gun was initially described currently listed anywhere on the planet for $1200 or less. Where are they? Please supply a link, I'd like to take a look.

[allen newell]

Greg, I'll have to PM you the info but bear in mind there are others who have expressed similar interest and will be contacting the dealer tomorrow.

[Greg Baehman]

Thanks Allen, but wouldn't be interested in one with a blued frame.

[allen newell]

Blueing can be removed easy enough.

[David Holes]

Here's a SW 20 that doesn't need the blue removed

[allen newell]

Nice! Is it a re-stocking? or is it original wood on that 20SW? Either way, It's very nice. In fact, I think I have room in my safe for that SW.

[David Holes]

It's definately a restock, some of my rose creek walnut I put up years ago.

[allen newell]

Well it looks terrific David. Who did the restocking?

[David Holes]

A retired stockmaker friend.

[Phil Yearout]

My mantra has always been if you want to collect them, think Philly; if you want to shoot 'em, think Utica. Personally I would not shy away from any gun just because it's a Savage gun. As with most anything it's a gun-by-gun thing; I have three mid-30's Utica SW's that are finished quite well and are great shooters, and I have heard it said that there was more decline in quality and finish from early to late Philly guns than from late Philly to Savage guns. As others have said, 2-3/4" chambers and more modern dimensions are two advantages. And I gotta say, I don't know where you guys are from, but if you regularly find SW 20ga guns for a grand or less, I want some of that action!