Question about 2 1930 Parkers

[ToniLovoi]

I recently unearthed 2 guns that belonged to my grandfather and am interested in selling them, but since I don't know anything about guns, I'm finding it difficult to get a good idea of what they're worth. Based upon the research I've been able to do, I think this is the pertinent information:

First one:

S# 235570, Grade DH, 12 gauge, frame size 1 1/2, Titanic Steel, c. 1930 according to this site.

Second one:

S# 235608, Grade V?, 12 gauge, frame size 2, Trojan, c. 1930 according to this site.

Both of these are in great condition, my grandfather was not a hunter and got these as a collector, I guess. There's no rust, nothing is remotely loose, the case colors (I learned some lingo!) look great to a layperson, no scratches, no damage to the barrels, which are full and intact. I would say they're not mint because they're old and need a thorough cleaning, but they're definitely in excellent condition.

Can anyone venture a guess as to their value? I realize selling them to a dealer won't get me the full value that a collector might pay and I'm fine with that for convenience's sake, but nor do I want to give them away, of course. Any help would be greatly, greatly appreciated.

Toni

[Sean Harper]

Post some pictures. A lot of these folks here can give you a pretty good ball-park. But pictures help.:)

[Francis Morin]

The DH on a 1 & 1/2 frame in 12 gauge was a very popular mid-grade Parker gun--as the membership will tell you, the more fotos and details you can supply us, the better we can assist you, should you wish to sell either or both Parkers- The Vulcan was Parkers "Field grade" until about just prior to WW1 era- they brought out the Trojan as an aconomy grade, possibly to compete with the popular AH Sterlingworth model. Trojan steel and the always used No. 2 frame for the 12 gauge, plus you may see a O superimposed on a V on the water table (the flat part of the receiver that takes the barrels and lug-

I have owned two "using" Trojan 12 gauge Parkers over the years- mechanically they are solid and reliable as any good quality boxlock gun ever made- As many of the purchasers of a Trojan Parker "in the day" had that as their only shotgun, Parker made them on a slightly heavy frame for their gauge: No. 2 for the 12, No. 1 for the 16 and No. 0 for the 20 gauge, as their owners, possibly like many hunters then tended to shoot heavy loads-

You might be interested to know that Mr. Skeuse, at one time President of Reagent Chemical Ind. and the "factor" behind the Japanese-Winchester produced Parker Reproductions (now long since discontinued) used Parker Trojans for his bird hunting- believe he said "I want a good gun I don't have to 'baby'- and another thing about the Trojan, due to its frame configurations, it can't be "upgraded" into a AHE from a VHE, for example-

Welcome to the PGCA, may I suggest you take a membership and possibly request research on your two fine shotguns. The serial numbers sound about right, and if they have the case colors and blue and wood finish, I infer they were properly stored away all these years--:bigbye:

[ToniLovoi]

Hi, thanks for responding so quickly! I took a bunch of pictures of each and posted them in albums in my profile, I figured that would be best. Upon closer examination, it turns out that the Trojan is in even better condition than I thought, really near mint, and the DH has a little bit of wear or surface rust in places, as you'll see in the photos, but nothing major and nothing that can't be polished off easily, I'm pretty sure. I'm eager to hear your thoughts, thanks again for the help!

Toni

[Francis Morin]

At 'first blush" the Trojan looks very clean- if those are original colors, blue and wood finish- very remarkable- barrel length and chokes are secondary, most all 12 gauge Trojans will have either 28 or 30 inch Trojan Steel barrels, double triggers (with a very few exceptions) and manual extractors and a splinter forearm with the spring "pry-off" release design.

Hard to saw without a closer look at that nice DH- are you sure it is a DH 9extractor gun) or possibly a DHE ejector gun- if the blades are split as you open the gun and "ride" in milled grooves in the bottom of the doll's head barrel rib extension (A Parker hallmark) you have a DHE-- either way, a fine and very popular middle grade Parker. Be very very careful in what you use to clean both the metal and steel, my advise would be wipe with a silicone cloth and keep uncased in a heated home-and when you can, have a reputable double gunsmith check them over for you- If you care to list for us where you reside, perhaps we can recommend someone nearby.:bigbye:

[Dave Suponski]

The Trojan looks to me to be an old Del Grego refinished gun with the wrong butt plate on it. Overall a very decent gun. The DHE has some oxidation issues as you stated but all in all a decent gun that with a little TLC could be very very nice. Thanks for posting the pictures.A check of gun sites such as Gunbroker.com. or Gunsamerica.com would give you a good idea what Parkers of this condition sell for.

[ToniLovoi]

Thanks, any idea how much they might be worth? I live in Rockland County, NY, about 20 miles outside of NYC. I'm mostly just interested in selling them in as-is condition, if anyone knows of dealers or collectors in the area that are reputable and would give a fair price, I'd certainly be interested in that as well.

Toni

[Bill Murphy]

That is a very novel idea to picture a gun in your profile. Both guns seem to have been poorly stored and seriously rusted. That is not a fatal flaw if they are cleaned by someone who knows what he is doing. Wait, no, WAIT before you worry about that. The Trojan seems like it has been refinished, maybe by Larry Del Grego and Son in Ilion, New York or the Remington factory. The case hardening color is characteristic of Del Grego or Remington work and the buttplate is a replacement that only they would have available to them. Both guns have value and should be looked at by someone in your area. Where is that?

[Richard Flanders]

The D grade looks like it had a lot of case color when it was stored and has gorgeous wood. Too bad about the corrosion but I'm sure it will clean up pretty good in the right hands. Nice find Toni!

[ToniLovoi]

Thanks again for the replies. I'm in Rockland County, NY, just outside of Manhattan. I do have to disagree with the "seriously rusted" characterization, because although the DH (I'm not sure about the E, all I know is it has DH imprinted on it) does have some rust, it's certainly not extreme, and as I said the Trojan has literally zero visible rust, it looks essentially like it came from the factory (or if it has been refurbished as some people seem to think, from wherever that took place). I can't imagine what picture gave that impression, and almost everyone else who commented mentioned how clean it looks. I'm confused. Anyway, thanks for all the input but I'm still wondering how much I might expect to sell these for. I'm not a collector and I don't have much interest in repairing or cleaning them for myself. Thanks again.

Toni

[ToniLovoi]

P.S. I actually just looked at the photos of the Trojan that I uploaded, and I do see how you could mistake the pattern on the metal (the case color? I'm not sure if that's the right term) for rust, but it's not. The gun looks pretty perfect. It's hard to take pictures that do justice to guns, maybe because I'm a novice!

[Dave Suponski]

Toni,No one here is knocking your guns.We are just pointing out things that we know will detract from the value. Also we know refinished guns as in the case of the Trojan will not bring the same dollars as a high condition original gun.I suggested a couple of gun websites for you to peruse.

I would think that your Trojan could sell in the neighborhood of $2000.00 to the right buyer. And the DH $3000-$3500 Just my opinion...

[ToniLovoi]

I know you're not knocking the guns, I'm just frustrated because I couldn't get better shots of them. I'm looking for an opinion on what they're worth and I'm not providing accurate information for people to go on. When I looked back at one of the photos the whole gun looks covered in rust and the gun has no rust on it. I am for sure not a photographer. I appreciate everyone's replies - thanks again ...

[Dave Suponski]

Taking good quality photos of guns is not an easy task. One the best ways I have been taught is to take the guns outside on a cloudy day and shoot with no flash.

[Francis Morin]

If you have the luxury of time here, and you are sure you wish to sell those two 12 gauge Parkers, Dave's advice is "right spot on"--even though I don't normally buy guns from the various sites on the Internet, a good perusal of them all is an education-and I think you'll see the best fotos show All the details available.

I don't know Dave personally, but a few months ago he was looking for some firing pins, and as we both have a machinist background, it was a pleasure to correspond with someone that accurate. He also noticed the Dog's head buttplate on your Trojan (something I missed) which is NOT factory- they use a plain black plate normally with vertical 'hashed marked" lines, and no grip cap on their economy grade Parker-

Don't be discouraged- as someone said about "small details", they are most important to the serious collectors and shooters of "America's Finest Shotgun":cool:

[Robert Rzepiela]

I think estimate above are high. The Trojan looks like it left factory. Problem is it was not Parker factory. I'd be suprised if you break 1200 on Trojan. After all it is refinished 12ga Trojan.

[Francis Morin]

Robert, your reply raises a question. The two 12 ga. Trojans I had owned were "users": hunting guns with honest "wear and tear". Just for my learning curve here- let's take a Trojan- mfg. in Meriden 12 gauge DT 30" Mod & Full, and bless it with the good fortune that befell the man who bought Arthur Middleton's NJ house in the 1930's and found the "unfired" 16 Invincible-a almost "virgin" Parker- and set a resale value for today's market- and compare that to the same basics in our trojan, but restored, either by Turnbull or Delgrego, with the attendant paperwork to verify same, and again, set a current value.

I recall reading in Jack O'Connors' "The Shotgun Book" that he described many 12 Trojan and VH parkers as evidencing heavy wear- and a comment along these lines: "The fellow who bought a high grade gun usually took very good care of it"-- possibly so--:rolleyes:

[Bill Murphy]

The Remington era dog's head buttplate on the Trojan suggests that it was either redone at Del Grego's or sent back to Remington for work. It is a rare buttplate and not one any other gunsmith would have access to. The confusing aspect of this opinion is that the gun is a pretty late Trojan and shouldn't have needed refinishing. We could be mistaken about the Trojan's provenance and truly would need better pictures. A Remington refinish would be identified by repair codes stamped on the barrel flats, only visible when the gun is disassembled into its three components. A Remington manufactured (which this is) or Remington refinished Trojan could possibly been sent out with the dog's head buttplate. However, I have seen Trojans as late as 240,000 serial number range with the standard Trojan buttplate.

[Robert Rzepiela]

Look on the Rock Island Auction websites, Lot #: 3544. Trojan 20ga with similar finish - "professionally refinished". I was not there but from what I heard, not too many items made over the high mark. You have 12ga and the rust issues to be dealt with here...