Need help researching 16 GH 34" barrels

[John Gardner]

Hello all,
My friend has an odd ball 16 gauge with no listing for letter records for serial number 188951.

It is a 16 ga GH, with no engraving, Parker Bros name starts behind the back side screws, Parker Special Steel barrels 34" Wt. 6.6, has 16 where frame size is usually marked, he thinks it is a '2' frame but not marked as such.

Other markings on barrels are HT over A, JG in oval, K, 6.6 (tops out close to 14 pounds), Dog butt plate.

I will try to get some pictures posted.

Greatly appreciate any information.
Cheers JG

[scott kittredge]

34 in :shock: and is that another receiver with no engraving or are my eyes getting bad WOW. what a gun! scott

[George M. Purtill]

That is weird for sure. The engraving that is there is very odd.
Some more pictures please?

[Larry Frey]

he thinks it is a '2' frame but not marked as such.



Jay,
He could measure the distance between the firing pins to determine the frame size but it almost looks like a 1 stamped on the barrel lug next to the 16. That is a very interesting gun thanks for showing it.

[Eric Eis]

Larry that was what I was thinking too, it looks like a number 1 on the lug. I remember Jack Puglisi had a D (12 ga I think) that was only engraved on the right side so it did happen. Eric

[Ed Blake]

How can #1 frame 16 gauge barrels weigh 6.6 lbs? And 14 lbs altogether? It just does not seem right.

[Dave Purnell]

Awfully heavy for a 1, even heavy for a 2. Please measure between centerline of pins.

[Dave Suponski]

And there is that "K" again on the lug. Interesting gun...we need more pictures please.

[Mills Morrison]

That is a very interesting and unique gun. The owner should be proud.

[Ed Blake]

Where is Eightbore? How much do the barrels of your 3 frame 16 weigh Bill?

[Bill Murphy]

There are more than a few uncommonly heavy Parkers out there. #3 frame 16s, #6 frame 10s and 12s for example. More than a few years ago, I believe it was Littlejohn's Auction that sold a collection containing many extra heavy large frame small bore Parkers. I would be interested in seeing the catalog for that auction. Measure the exact distance between firing pins on the GH. A #1 frame would be 1 1/16" spacing, a #1 1/2 or #2 frame gun would be 1 1/8" spacing.

[John Gardner]

Gentlemen,
Thank you all for the comments. I am outside Victoria, BC so sorry for late reply but haven't had coffee yet! (7 am)
What is a gun corn Scott?
I will post better pictures this afternoon - first crack at this so please forgive quality of pics (my first post - better to use quick reply or new reply?)
Thank you Bill for the dimension between pins guidance - I will measure and post.
I will also weigh total gun and each pc individual. It is heaviest 16 or 12 shotgun I have ever picked up - very nose heavy.

Greatly appreciate the help!
Cheers JG

PS Is this the right forum for this?

[I am very new to this game and got bit hard by the Parker bug - started with older hammer guns (and first gen 44-40) - still love them but really like narrowing focus to Parker.]

What is right forum for posting pics of other Parkers I have - all beginners quality stuff but not junk - to get a feel for where these guns land, 10%, 20%, 30%, more? :rolleyes:

Also need to find a US FFL holder with export permit - that doesn't move at snail's pace - to ship guns to that I buy (hopefully :) ) and transport to Victoria gun store with import license. Any reccomendations really appreciated.

Currently have guns from the Vegas show, no Parkers, all hammers + 2 beautiful pin fires just couldn't say no to, - said I was new :) - sitting with a guy for past two months and process-to-clear just starting this week.

Many thanks and all advice greatly appreciated!

[scott kittredge]

Hmm, don't know what the gun corn thing was but its fixed now

[charlie cleveland]

let us hear more of this monster of a 16 gauge...these heavy weights are what i like best..the owner should be proud of this gun..those barrel weights are as heavy as most 3 frame 10 ga s .... charlie

[John Gardner]

I thought it was some kinda gun collecting jargon...duh. :-)

[Dave Noreen]

Wecome John. That is a super interesting gun. Being in Canada you should be collecting Tobins --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Tobin%20Arms%20Mfg%20Co/No70TrapGradefromCatalogNo110.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Tobin%20Arms%20Mfg%20Co/1735103.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Tobin%20Arms%20Mfg%20Co/1735102.jpg

On to things Parker Bros., my 2-frame 32-inch barrel 20-gauge barrels only has a weight stamp of 4 5 --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/Ansleyone/Parker/5621308_zps55c295ea.jpg

P.S. I don't think you want to measure "the distance between the firing pins". You want to measure the center-to-center distance on the firing pins.

[John Gardner]

Thanks Dave but for now it is all Parker! :-). :-)

[Dean Romig]

That stamp on the bottom of the lug next to the 16, under magnification, looks very much like the horizontal line of the number 2.

Measure exact distance between firing pin centers to determine frame size.

[John Gardner]

Thanks for all the fast help everyone.

Dean, when we both got looking we thought the same about the line being the bottom of a 2 on the lug and it measures out to be a #2 frame - Thanks Bill - not a #1 as we first thought.
I have a bunch more pics to help out. :) A picture of the overall gun will be added too.

Now for the bad news:
1) Some criminal partially reamed the chambers out to 12 ga, and they did it badly.:crying: would need repair (not minor) before shooting.
2) The stock is not original to the gun. It is #124320 and also has an '0', an 'asterick star', and the small initials RB in the area where serial number is located inside stock.
3) A second screw hole was put into the trigger guard
4) Has external rust pitting for about six inches inclusive starting at muzzle tip.

Good news is all the other bits have the correct numbers and it is one impressive big gun assembled. :)

No idea where it sorts out value wise. Any thoughts on value range appreciated. Thanks again Gentlemen.

Cheers JG

[John Gardner]

Shots of the whole gun with tape measure and my 12 ga Vulcan with 30" barrels and with my 20 ga PH with 26" barrels for comparrison.

[Ed Blake]

It's clear to me from the first picture that it is a one frame 16. Am I not comprehending something here?

[Bill Murphy]

I agree with Dean, it's a "2" and the firing pin distance will be the final determination. Ed, I'm ready to pick up that V Grade pigeon gun at the Southern. I'll bring my checkbook.

[charlie cleveland]

wow.... mighty nice work on the layout and pictures of this gun...i m no expert on gun working but i think you can have the chambers either rebuilt up andresized to true 16 bore or have chamber sleves fitted inside of gun s chamber back to 16 bore...as for pitting on the out side of barrels im sure some of our barrel refinishers can tell you how to improve the apperance...as far as the worth of the gun as it is i will make a good guess that it would bring 2500 as it is...it being and unusal gun configuration and the long barrels and it being a 16 bore will make it appeal to fellows like me....if it were mine i would probably just fix the chamber problem and shoot and enjoy as is..thanks for bringing this gun to our attention..... charlie

[John Gardner]

Thank you Charlie, Bill,
Ed we did the measurement as directed and it came out a #2 frame. When we put the magnifier to her you can just make out faintly where the horizontal bottom of the 2 starts to swoop up.

Gord did the disassembly and let me 'assist' (third hand that he didn't need) with the reassembly. Quite the education and made me further appreciate the quality of the Parker shotgun.

Didn't understand the issue with the little block of wood in the upper neck of the stock that routinely breaks during disassembly - see photo above - Gord tells me it happens all the time but I don't get how the Parker engineers would let that stand. Or is there a special technique to prevent that occurring?

Thanks to all with the help. I have two books enroute, and will get with Amazon or Ebay to pick up couple more on Parkers, and sending off for some research letters. ( the 34" serial # didn't come up on the list).

Could ask for a better welcome to the club.

If anyone is headed to the Denver show May 18-19 be my pleasure to buy a coffee, beer (or even a scotch as will be taxiing to hotel!)

Cheers JG

[John Truitt]

Sir,

The gun can be re chambered back to 16 ga.
The pitting can be struck out given there is enough wall thickness but I dont think that will be an issue given its barrel overall weight.

[John Gardner]

Thank you Jim,
And it is John.
Everybody, my really, really, BAD on the spell check before!!

COULD NOT have asked for better welcome to club!!!

Yeash! Shouldn't post BC - Before Coffee - you guys have been great! Make that two beverages and some humble pie in Denver!

Cheers and chagrined in Victoria,
JG

[Ed Blake]

I agree with Dean, it's a "2" and the firing pin distance will be the final determination. Ed, I'm ready to pick up that V Grade pigeon gun at the Southern. I'll bring my checkbook.

Bill, you flatter me with your offer. I thought you'd have forgotten about that old thing by now.

[Bill Murphy]

No, Ed, I haven't forgotten. The big guns are a real weakness, although the testfire of the new half frame was fun too.

[John Truitt]

Mr Gardner,

I am curiosu how has your project goen so far?
Any luck with the barrels?

[John Gardner]

Hi John, The fellow who owns the gun has put it on the shelf for now. I think it is a neat Parker but not my personal cup of tea and I think the owner would take an offer and let someone else restore it. He has not 'officially' put it up for sale. He is an older gentleman with several projects on the go (two small ones for me!) and his pet project has been Model A's the last couple years not Parkers. I am seeing him in a couple weeks and will bug him.

[Mills Morrison]

Your friend would do well to join PGCA and post this in the for sale section. He should have no trouble getting a good sale on it and more than recouping the membership fee.

[charlie cleveland]

by posting this gun in the parker for sale the owner could buy some parts for his model a ... charlie

[John Gardner]

I am really not sure why he doesn't belong to PGCA as he is a keen collector and restorer of Parkers, he must have bits and pcs for twenty guns, other than perhaps his age and very slow if any Internet access. As for selling this gun when he's ready, and he definately has his own pace, I will help him put it in the correct forum if he doesn't join for some reason.

[Mills Morrison]

You are a true friend for him. The 4 issues a year of Parker Pages is worth the $40, for anyone interested in Parkers.

[Brian Dudley]

That stock may not be original to the gun, but it is original Parker. The RB stamp you mention is actually P.B. for Pearson Bannister who was a stock maker for Parker.

It is hard to tell by the photo is the water table what the other markings are other than the serial number. Can you clarify? That looks like a Trojan OV mark over the serial number. But it has PS barrels and a sculpted frame. VERY interesting gun!

[John Gardner]

Thanks for info Brian I am planning on stopping by Gord's tomorrow and I'll take a closer look and some more pics if I can.

[Brian Hornacek]

I am looking forward to seeing this gun fixed up soon.... :corn: :whistle:

[Phillip Carr]

Sounds like Brian has a new project.

[Dean Romig]

We see the Trojan's OV stamped into that horizontal diamond insignia more often than other grades but we have seen other higher grades stamped in that insignia as well. A certain A1S comes to mind.





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