for discussion

[charlie cleveland]

is therely truly a such a thing as a shotgun that will kill a bird at a hundred yards fired from the shoulder.some say there is such guns and others shake there heads ...what do you say.... charlie

[Rick Losey]

Which bird? And which shooter? What shot size? And how consistantly?

Can it happen - I think it certainly could -if for no other reason than one lucky pellet could drop a woodcock

Would I count on it enough to try it -to certainly not

[Brian Dudley]

I would think some magnum loads to be able to have some velocity out to that distance, but of course the pattern would be so wide that individual pellets would not have the stopping power for anything of any real size.

At the gun club that I belong to, the trap fields shoot directly toward a highway. And I would say not much farther than a purple hundred yards. I know that is farther than we are talking about, but I am sure that there is zero velocity long before that point.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

The right gun in the right hands, it's more the hands than the gun.


DLH

[John Campbell]

This is a fun - and virtually inconclusive - question. But the killing power of a shotgun is not related to the size of the bore or the velocity of the shot at such a distance. It almost entirely depends on the size/mass of the pellet involved and where that pellet strikes a bird. (Maj. Burrard, decades ago)

Thus, a .410 firing No. 2 shot could indeed kill a pheasant at 100 yards, if that pellet strikes the bird in the right place. No. 6 shot at most any sane muzzle velocity peobably could not.

In all cases, however, it would be a lucky shot. Forward allowance would be staggering.

[Dean Romig]

I'm not much into sniper-shooting my turkeys... I think it would take most of the fun out of what is probably the most interactive hunting experience one could have.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

The two longest shots I can recall ever making were both with big bore shotguns and large shot. The first was a mallard drake with a 4 gauge and #2 shot at something like 82 big steps, bird fell straight down dead. The other was a teal with an 8 gauge shooting #4 shot. The bird was so far and partially across water I couldn't really measure. But, it was further than the mallard of that I'm certain, also graveyard dead in the air.

I wouldn't call either one luck, both days I'd been shooting at birds long range consistently and was in the groove. Some days I can't kill a bird at 35 yards let alone 70 plus yards but when you're on you're on.

The finest long range shots I've ever seen operate were deadly at 70 yards and could kill birds further. I once watched The Great Gurton kill five for five on a flock that started at 50 yards and when the last shot was fired were 70 easy. This was shooting a 12 gauge with short magnum shells in #4. I saw a goose guide in Scotland kill doubles at 70 plus yards on a regular basis shooting a 12 gauge and #4 magnum loads.

There are guys out there who are better with the gun than most of us could ever dream to be. I'm not saying 100 yards is where we ought to be shooting at anything, but it's possible.

There's a gentleman on this forum who's told me he can break a clay at 100 yards with an LC Smith Wildfowl. I've not seen the feat performed but I believe him.


DLH

[chris dawe]

I killed a snipe at around (what my brother considered at the time) 100 yards .One # 4 pellet in the back of his noggin from a full choke H&R single .It's not something I would even entertain now ,but being around 15 at the time I thought I was a real pro .


I can remember my brother yelling at me "It's too far ,stop wasting shell's !" and down he went:whistle:

[Drew Hause]

Please watch for the article in the Spring Double Gun Journal about the Smith Long Range Wild Fowl, with actual pattern testing at 82 yards by David Williamson. The BEST pattern showed less than 1% of the pellets on target.
Being a victim of a public education in the great state of Missouri, I would respectfully request those claiming 80 yard kills (and not where the bird landed) to "Show Me" the pattern, unless the gun is a Woolwich :rolleyes:

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1373/6511424/20091267/399203606.jpg

And yes, I witnessed a buddy kill a big Sage Grouse in WY at 50 yards with a single pellet in the head (I cleaned the bird). Unfortunately, thereafter he shot at every 50 yard bird, cleanly killed none, and likely left a number to die a bad death out in the field with a single pellet in the chest or gut :(

[John Dallas]

Look on YouTube for George Digweed breaking clays at 115 yards. Not every time, but enough to show it wasn't luck. I believe he was shooting his Perazzi 12 gauge, 34" barrels

[Drew Hause]

Here you go John
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teixm6JMw_k

[John Campbell]

Digweed breaking a clay is a lot different than the average Joe killing a bird at that distance. No common sportsman should be blazing away at game with a shotgun at this range.

[ed good]

digweed is amazing!

[Ray Masciarella]

You just have to hold high, right? I have not tested my turkey gun at 100 yards. But I do know that the center of the pattern drops 6" from 40 to 70 yards. So if I held it high enough, I think I could hit the target at 100.

[Dean Romig]

The average shooter would stand a better chance with a scoped .22 at that distance.

[Destry L. Hoffard]

I've only had luck at extreme range shooting a big bore gun with the heaviest loads possible. Guys that do it with a 12 gauge amaze me, I couldn't do it probably because I think I can't. Kaas and I killed limits of ducks the last day in Quebec this year on a pass shooting venture and I don't believe a single bird was under 50 yards, some were probably as far as 60. That's as far as I feel confident with a 12 bore. I just won't pull the trigger on anything further unless I'm shooting at a flying cripple then figure what the hell it's worth a try. But 60 yards certainly ain't 100, or even 80......


DLH

[Bill Murphy]

I don't shoot waterfowl much, but have used nothing but full choked tens for several years, just because I had the ammunition and like to shoot at everything, because opportunities were scarce. I have made some very long shots at single mallards and one shot on an escaping goose at more than 90 yards. He dropped like a rock, but had been shot at before. I shot another very high goose who dropped straight down at a measured range in the mid eighties. He had the appearance of a 90 plus yard bird in the air. These are all with heavy loads of big steel shot, not the best choice, but they seem to work OK. I would love to try my Eley Bismuth eight gauge shells, but I'm just not able to handle the guns well. They are 2 1/2 ounce loads that I have not patterned.

[Richard Flanders]

Seems like this thread has deviated away from the question a bit. The question was will a shotgun kill a bird at 100yds, not should we be trying to kill birds at 100 yds. Personal experience need not enter into the argument. The ballistics of the pellets is all that is needed. I don't have a chart in front of me but every one I've seen shows the maximum distance a shot load will travel, given the optimum elevation angle to be what? 250 - 400 yds or something like that. Clearly, with a lucky pellet of size 2-4 that hits in the right spot, a shotgun will kill a bird at 100 yds. I killed a pheasant at 70 yds with a single #7-1/2 pellet once, and it was a body hit nowhere near the head, so 100yds doesn't seem a reach to me at all with larger pellets.

[John Farrell]

Drew Hause said it all in a previous post here.

What we are out there doing is attempting to harvest game birds and we should all be doing it as well as our tools allow us to do it, not sitting around the fire conjuring up dreams that cannot be fulfilled given the tools and science we work with.

I would like to be able to play the piano. But I will never be called a piano player. So, I concentrate on doing what I do with the tools and ability I have at hand.

[Bill Murphy]

I'll see if I can find the account of an early 1900s chicken shoot where shotgun shooters try to dispatch a chicken at a fairly reasonable range. It was amazing how difficult it seemed to be to kill a standing chicken dead from just a bit more than standard shotgun ranges.

[John Dallas]

A bird sitting/standing/swimming with his wings folded up on his back is tough to kill (think duck cripple) because his wing feathers are folded up like shingles on his vital area, and shot is more easily deflected

[Pete Lester]

Yes it is possible to effectively kill ducks to 100 yds and beyond, but not with guns that are legal in the US today. Testing was done to prove both pattern and penetration was sufficient along with live shooting of ducks. This was accomplished with both 8 and 4 bore guns.

This is according to the book, "The gun and it's development" by H.H. Greener.

See page 396, "Killing range of large calibres"

This is some great stuff in here, the book is HUGE 838 pages so downloading takes a bit of time.

http://archive.org/details/gunitsdevelopmen00greerich

[charlie cleveland]

i have read this articule PETE and its a very interesting read...these fellows went through a lot of tests on this...thanks for the info... ive always thought the large bores were capable of killing cleanly at a 100 yards its surprizeing as to what a load of lead bbs will do to a 5 gallon can at a 100 yards... charlie

[Drew Hause]

Here's a direct link
http://books.google.com/books?id=3HMCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA382&source

[Paul Harm]

As Richard said, the question was could a bird be killed at a 100yds, not do we try to harvest game at that range. It seems the answer is yes. If George Digweed can break clay birds at over 100 yards with 71/2's or smaller, then with enough large shot a bird could be killed at 100 yards. JMHO - Paul

[John Farrell]

IF one can drive a pellet, or pellets, into a vital area at 100 yards game can be taken, I suppose. Watching Annie Oakley events at my gun club from time to time it is common to see how often the target gets to the 4th or 5th gun before it is sometimes broken. Not saying it had not been hit by pellets from earlier guns before it broke. I agree the deed could be done at 100 yards, but at what cost to the population of game birds punctured with wounding pellets and never harvested.

Please don't take 100 yard shots at game birds on my hunting spots with any bore shotgun.

[Berkley Stephens]

My son and I were goose hunting on the eastern shore of Maryland about 1990 and he crippled a goose from a field blind. We killed a couple of other geese at the same time and by the time we got around to the cripple(we didn,t have a dog), he had a real head start. We chased him for about 100 yards before I stopped and pointed my 10ga BPS with 3 1/2 in "t" shot with a Imp cyl. choke and fired. The load cut off the gooses' head and sent it about 12 ft beyond the body which did not move. We walked it off and it was 75 yards.
I was just trying to get one shot in him to slow him down. I would never shoot a goose over 40 yds flying, but I never was worried about a cripple getting away if I could see him. I guess the steel shot all stuck together.
Well, that's my long killing story Berk

[Mills Morrison]

I fully agree with not taking a shot at game unless you are reasonably certain of a clean kill. I have passed on many, many shots, for that reason. However, there is nothing more fun than taking a long shot at a clay and having it disintegrate way in the distance. The clays don't care if you just wound them. Even more fun with a 10 gauge . . .

[Kyle Lambright]

I know this is not directly answering the OP, but I remember an article in the NSCA magazine probably 15 years ago about two guys that could supposedly consistently kill doves past 75 yards. If my memory serves me correctly, one of them was a using a long barreled Beretta 303 with a turkey choke and AA Super Handicaps.

[Mills Morrison]

I could believe that. Turkey chokes are awful tight.