Chokes and Chambers

[Sam Hershfield]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the input, but I have to say I'm a little confused with the differing opinions offered to my original post.

So, is there a definitive answer to:

1. Were the 1891 12 ga. Damascus Parker GH's shipped with a 2 1/2, 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch chamber?

2. I've just ordered RST 12 Ga. • 2 1/2" • MaxiLite • Vel. 1125 • 1 oz. Load #9 shot. Is that the proper load for my 123 year old GH? I called RST and they said it was.

3. Was it normal to ship Full/Full chokes in a GH?

Thanks again for all your knowledge.

Sam

[charlie cleveland]

would love to run up on some of those odd lentgh shell s such as the 3 inch 16 ga and the 12 ga 3 1/4 inch...i have a umc 8 ga in brass hull thats 3 1/2 3 1/4 and 3 inch need a 4 inch 8 ga and did see a gun marked 4 1/2 inch chamber...charlie

[Researcher]

1. Hard to say without additional information.

2. While no one can tell you over the internet what ammunition may or may not be safe in a given gun, those RSTs should be great in a sound example. I'd certainly shoot them in my 1889 vintage heavy 2-frame GH-Grade.

3. Yes.

[Researcher]

would love to run up on some of those odd lentgh shell s such as the 3 inch 16 ga and the 12 ga 3 1/4 inch...i have a umc 8 ga in brass hull thats 3 1/2 3 1/4 and 3 inch need a 4 inch 8 ga and did see a gun marked 4 1/2 inch chamber...charlie

A couple of auctions ago SoldUSA had a 3-inch 16-gauge shell in their offerings --

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...pse202d0d6.jpg



I'm beginning to think the old Pigeon and Trap shooters shot up all those long 12-gauge shells!! I am sure not finding any in the auctions. I've gotten a pretty good selection of 3-inch 20-gauge shells from 1910 to the early 1930s vintage, but the 12-gauge just haven't come my way. From the introduction of the Lubaloy shot in 1929 thru 1949, Western Cartridge Co. offered a 12-gauge 3-inch Super-X Pigeon and trap load with 1 1/4 ounce of #7L or #7 1/2L, but I've yet to see a box of those appear.

A few years ago while bird hunting out in the Channeled Scablands I picked up a fired Winchester Leader 3-inch 12-gauge shell of about 1920 vintage. I have no idea how long it was laying out there but the paper tube was faded white except for about a 1/2 inch wide strip that was against the ground that is still pinkish. While it is dry country, I'm sure someone was out there hunting using up Grandpa's old shells in much more recent times.

[Researcher]

would love to run up on some of those odd lentgh shell s such as the 3 inch 16 ga and the 12 ga 3 1/4 inch...i have a umc 8 ga in brass hull thats 3 1/2 3 1/4 and 3 inch need a 4 inch 8 ga and did see a gun marked 4 1/2 inch chamber...charlie

A couple of auctions ago SoldUSA had a 3-inch 16-gauge shell in their offerings --





I'm beginning to think the old Pigeon and Trap shooters shot up all those long 12-gauge shells!! I am sure not finding any in the auctions. I've gotten a pretty good selection of 3-inch 20-gauge shells from 1910 to the early 1930s vintage, but the 12-gauge just haven't come my way. From the introduction of the Lubaloy shot in 1929 thru 1949, Western Cartridge Co. offered a 12-gauge 3-inch Super-X Pigeon and trap load with 1 1/4 ounce of #7L or #7 1/2L, but I've yet to see a box of those appear.

A few years ago while bird hunting out in the Channeled Scablands I picked up a fired Winchester Leader 3-inch 12-gauge shell of about 1920 vintage. I have no idea how long it was laying out there but the paper tube was faded white except for about a 1/2 inch wide strip that was against the ground that is still pinkish. While it is dry country, I'm sure someone was out there hunting using up Grandpa's old shells in much more recent times.

[Researcher]

I just grabbed up a variety of modern nominally 2 3/4 inch fired plastic hulls from my supplies. Winchester compression formed AA 12- and 28-gauge and a 12-gauge Super-X Pheasant, Remington Premier STS 12- and 28-gauge and 12-gauge Remington Express, and a 20-gauge Active all measure between 2 5/8 and 2 11/16 long. The only hull I picked that came near 2 3/4 inch was a Western Xpert Mark 5 16-gauge and it was still abour 3/64 shy. A 2 1/2 inch compression formed AA .410-bore shell was an honest 2 1/2 inch.

Just grabbed some fired old paper cases that have been sitting on my bookcase. The 20-gauge Peters High Velocity, the 20-gauge Remington Nitro Express, the 20-gauge Federal and the 28-gauge Western Super-X are all 2 21/32" long.

I measured all these shells sitting upright on a flat surface with a machinist's scale.

[Bruce Day]

I'll send more photos when I get back to my reloading bench at the other house. You guys up on the northeast always bragging about how long it is. Sheesh

[Larry the Gun Guy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

I'll send more photos when I get back to my reloading bench at the other house. You guys up on the northeast always bragging about how long it is. Sheesh

You know I don't have to watch TV for entertainment; it's all right here.

Education, entertainment, development of the common shooter and just plain fun!

You guys are a regular PBS all in one.


BTW, on page 67 of the "Winchester's Finest The Model 21" by Ned Schwing it shows a photograph of a Model 21 marked on the side of the barrel:
"Winchester 16 Gauge
3" Cham."

So at some point they were out there.

Last year Jim King had at 3" 16 Gauge Model 21 for sale on GI.

[Sheepherder]

Gentlemen,
I can see that a star crimped 2 3/4" shell, is 2 3/4" long when fired.
My question is: In the early 1900's, were the old rolled crimp shells, 2 3/4" long after being fired or were they a little shorter. I have no fired OLD roll crimped shells handy to measure.

[Steve Havener]

Originally Posted by Hal Sheets

Gentlemen,
I can see that a star crimped 2 3/4" shell, is 2 3/4" long when fired.
My question is: In the early 1900's, were the old rolled crimp shells, 2 3/4" long after being fired or were they a little shorter.

2 3/4 inch shells are 2 3/4 inches long (within manufactures tolerance) weather they were closed with a folded (star) crimp or with an over shot card and roll crimp.