'M' on Lifter Twist Barrels

[Drew Hause]

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums...&Number=665300

Have never seen an 'M'. I don't believe it is a Belgian tube maker's mark; usually further forward and different font.



The gun dates to the period when Parker Bros. was fabricating Twist and Laminated Steel tubes in house.

A Lifter with Twist barrels; ‘PB’ in a shield, ‘T’ for Twist, J.L. and an unknown mark

[Dean Romig]

That we know of, according to King, PB was fabricating Laminated Steel barrels in 1877, ‘78 and ‘79 but I wasn’t aware they were making their own Twist barrels…

I’ve seen an explanation for that M stamp Drew but I just can’t remember where or what the M indicates.

I thought it might have been for Decarbonized Steel but those tubes certainly aren’t Decarbonized Steel, or are they? Decarbonized barrels were used on some 10, 11 and 12 gauge guns during the years 1869-1875.

On page 581 of The Parker Story, in the table for barrel steel letter codes there is no “Decarbonized” but there is no “M” either… can we deduce the somewhat obvious?

So, it’s an 1879 gun and the rib is marked Twist.
We have, on the very rare occasion, seen that the the rib is marked one thing but the barrel tubes are something else. It’s a head-scratcher for sure.

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[Drew Hause]

This is Gary Carmichael's Plain Steel (after conflict with Remington over the 'Decarbonized' label) Lifter with a S



'Decarbonized' on the rib



Low resolution pic of Decarbonized Steel flats with 0 on the R and a symbol I can't ID on L - maybe the P inside a diamond?
Courtesy of Brad Bachelder 9-2010
“The diamond P remains to be an elusive mystery. What we have learned so far is a few commonalities. This mark appears on lifter and top lever guns, made around 1880. We have identified it on laminated, twist, and damascus barrels.
It generally is stamped on the right tube next to the extractor rod cut. In a few cases we have seen it on the forend hanger."




Previous Decarbonized Steel thread with some pics
https://parkerguns.org/forums/showthread.php?t=15215

More here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...A/edit?tab=t.0

[Dean Romig]

Lo and behold I just looked at my 16 gauge 0-frame Lifter barrels and to my surprise they're Plain Twist and the flats are stamped with an M.


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[Dean Romig]

The gun dates to the period when Parker Bros. was fabricating Twist and Laminated Steel tubes in house.

A Lifter with Twist barrels; ‘PB’ in a shield, ‘T’ for Twist, J.L. and an unknown mark

[/QUOTE

Drew, that unknown mark I believe is a 4 that has been broken. Likely the prestruck weight?
We’ve seen that broken 4 before.



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[Breck Gorman]

I’ve seen Four “M” stamps on Twist lifter barrels made during the time that John Blaze was producing barrels. One of those Four was a 20 gauge!
It’s pretty well accepted that the Laminated “P” stamps were made by John Blaze, but I’ve searched the documentation and have not found anything that the “M”Twist barrels were domestically made. But it makes sense. It’s a very different pattern than the other twist barrels with “T” and “U” stamps. It is much plainer in figure with less iron and more steel than typical Plain, Stub and other twist patterns.

[Dean Romig]

Hi Breck - Please educate me… who was John Blaze?

It has always been accepted that the Laminated Steel barrels on Parker Bros. shotguns made in late 1877, all of 1878 and early 1879 with the P stamped on the right barrel flat were made by Parker Bros. own barrel makers having been trained by a few English barrel makers who were brought over specifically to train Parker’s barrel makers.
Was John Blaze one of the gents who came over to train in-house employees or contractors?





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[Drew Hause]

Letters in The Chicago Field in 1878 state that a barrel forger named John Blaze of Birmingham, England had immigrated to America to make Dan Wesson's barrels. He was listed in the 1865 Worcester, Mass. City Directory as a ‘Gunsmith’, and 1878-1881 as a ‘Blacksmith’. Whether he left Wesson for Parker's employ after Dan Wesson shut down his shotgun production in December 1870 is uncertain. Other Wesson gunmakers did take jobs with Parker, including Charles A. King.

From the research of John Davis
The American Field (Chicago) on March 8, 1879.
Mr. Wesson commenced making guns and gun-barrels in the year 1868. He engaged a man, John Blaze, from Birmingham, England, who was considered one of the most skillful barrel forgers of his day. Mr. Wesson made about 400 pairs of barrels of the Damascus pattern, and a figure known as the Wesson pattern.
The Parker Bros., of Meriden, Conn., commenced making twisted barrels in the Spring of 1877.

The late Wilbur F. Parker at one time business manager of this enterprising firm, was so well pleased with the barrels manufactured by Mr. Wesson, and knowing of the flattering testimony given these barrels by sportsmen and dealers throughout the country, that he contemplated manufacturing gun barrels, and even engaged the barrel welder who made Mr. Wesson's barrels after the Wesson firm had given up making guns.

More here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...A/edit?tab=t.0