perfect pattern powder usage

[Rob Lewis]

Stack height is the issue with Perfect Pattern. It is a fast burning, very dense powder, so is really best suited for compression formed hulls. 7/8 load data is available on the Hodgdon website, but there is a general paucity of load data. There was mention of using a 3/4 oz wad for 7/8 shot loads. That suggestion was to deal with stack height. Stack height with perfect pattern is the biggest issue, when I say that, I mean because it is so extremely dense. All powder swapping takes some work to get crimps right though, it's just harder with PP.

It would not be my first choice for the short 10, I think. I use the 1 oz Clays load (10 ga) Sherman Bell initially developed, but that bottle is very light these days, and will be out soon. I replaced Clays with Ramshot Competition last year because that was availalbe everywhere. It worked great as a replacment, but there are no 4 or 8 lbers to be had. I'm looking at WSF or WST right now, but have not tried them, I do believe that Competion, WSF, WST and other flattened ball powders are all made by St Mark?

I had heard the shotshell powder shortage was due to the current production of similar powders (or powders on the same equipment) that are used in ordinance, which, due to the wars, is now in production? Can anyone comment on this?

I load 12 ga, 2.5" fiber shells on a modified PW 950. I did this during covid as the normal supplies of english shells dried completely up, then came back at over the top prices. (I also have a LS1000 that I converted to 2 7/8.)

If anyone is loading 2.5" fiber I'd love to compare notes.

[GH-16]

Thanks for the follow-up Guy's!

After I made my post about the need for a bushing chart, I got to thinking about how I was looking at charts I've had for years. I then went to the Hodgdon site and found an updated chart with the PP information.

Like you guys. I've been reloading for years and know not to trust a bushing chart & to only use it as a starting point. I always weigh my powder charges to not only find the right bushing in the first place, but I also weigh at least three throws before I start each session as well, just to make sure everything is good to go. One lesson learned over the years is that MEC bushings are notorious for throwing charges different from those listed in their chart.

Here's another oddity with regards to PP discovered yesterday. My 8 pounder of PP was delivered and when I looked at the load information on the container label, I noticed there was a discrepancy between what it had listed for the load I'm interested in, and the data published on the Hodgdon site. The Hodgdon site listed 14.8 grs but the bottle listed 15.1 grs for the exact same load. .3 grains aren't a big deal, but I did find interesting that the company that makes the powder has this discrepancy in their published loading information--Go Figure!

After taking a harder look. I found where the discrepancy is. The 14.8gr loading uses a Cheddite 209 primer and the 15.1gr is using a Winchester 209's but both loads list the same pressure & FPS. This tells me that basically you can interchange cheddite 209's & W 209's and still be within the specs for this load. Having to change .3grs of powder is basically insignificant when you get right down to it.

[Cold Spring]

I loaded 100 shells with a light load of Perfect Pattern and shot them on test yesterday with my gang. 12-gauge, 5 times fired Remington Gun Clubs, Nobelsport primers, and 7/8 ounce of 8-shot in CB1078-12 wads. I don't like to publish powder grain charges - mine was extrapolated much lower than published Hodgdon data and it was just a tad heavier in recoil than the practice load I've used for years now, with same components but with Alliant E3 powder at about 1150 speed. The testing with PP is to position for using up my inventory of E3 which is of course unobtainable. I have a MEC 9000 Progressive press dedicated for 7/8 ounce in GC hulls and it throws somewhat lighter charges than even a conservative reading of the Hodgdon powder/bushing charts. Progressive presses like my 9000 will generally throw lighter charges than the same powder bushing in a single-stage press, and of course a good powder scale and attention to detail are musts and especially so with low volume/high energy powders like PP. I settle the powder cannister by tapping it and then throw eight (8) charges and average them to verify the actual charge weight with that lot of powder. The PP dropped within a very tight range of weights. Well anyway I shot a really good score, a little better than my norm, and the barrels just had some light flecks after shooting, almost but not quite as clean as with E3. I'll also test with the next lower number powder bushing but at this point I'm good to go with the readily available Perfect Pattern powder when my E3 runs out.

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Frank Srebro

I loaded 100 shells with a light load of Perfect Pattern and shot them on test yesterday with my gang. 12-gauge, 5 times fired Remington Gun Clubs, Nobelsport primers, and 7/8 ounce of 8-shot in CB1078-12 wads. I don't like to publish powder grain charges - mine was extrapolated much lower than published Hodgdon data and it was just a tad heavier in recoil than the practice load I've used for years now, with same components but with Alliant E3 powder at about 1150 speed. The testing with PP is to position for using up my inventory of E3 which is of course unobtainable. I have a MEC 9000 Progressive press dedicated for 7/8 ounce in GC hulls and it throws somewhat lighter charges than even a conservative reading of the Hodgdon powder/bushing charts. Progressive presses like my 9000 will generally throw lighter charges than the same powder bushing in a single-stage press, and of course a good powder scale and attention to detail are musts and especially so with low volume/high energy powders like PP. I settle the powder cannister by tapping it and then throw eight (8) charges and average them to verify the actual charge weight with that lot of powder. The PP dropped within a very tight range of weights. Well anyway I shot a really good score, a little better than my norm, and the barrels just had some light flecks after shooting, almost but not quite as clean as with E3. I'll also test with the next lower number powder bushing but at this point I'm good to go with the readily available Perfect Pattern powder when my E3 runs out.

Given the lower volume of powder required with Perfect Pattern I suspect you went down in bushing size by 8 to 10 numbers from what you were using with E3. Did you have to change the wad to have proper stack height with the PP load in the Gun Club hull?

[Cold Spring]

Pete, your suspicion is correct on using a much lower number powder bushing. No I didn't change the wad from the CB1078-12. I just adjusted the wad seat punch for a little less depth to get nice flat crimps.

[matt koepnick]

As I was reading this thread thru again, I went to my receipt book to check my powder purchase pricing on Perfect pattern. I found a receipt for the last two 8 pounders that I bought back in spring 2020 from Brownell's. Those last 2 were a Green Dot, and WST. Pricing was 320.00 total shipped.. At that time, I was still working, and this was a large purchase.
I since then retired and only buy 4 pounders max due to their cost now being my ceiling expenditure somewhat similar as the 8"s were back then. Times changed. I'm thankful I bought ahead when not needed. Mattly