DROP IN VALUE FOR OPENED CHOKES

[J. A. EARLY]

Originally Posted by Garry L Gordon

And the funny thing is that if we had a factory record that the gun had been returned to have the chokes opened in the past, we would value the gun highly. There's great irony in collecting. Things evolve. We've all seen the rise in value of Damascus barrels, and now I see restored/reconditioned guns by certain gunsmiths are being valued well. The guns are gems, and we value what they hold for us as our link to the past.

I believe the reason we would value it much more if the gun had been returned to Parker to have the chokes opened is that we would know it was done correctly, just as it would have if it left the factory. We can't be sure of all of the thousands of guns that were opened by other gunsmiths, many not as careful as Parker would have been with their very long choking system that we see in their barrels. The gun I was looking at, having been honed from .662 to .676 in 16 gauge was worrisome to me. Obviously not done by Parker. The .007 removed from the barrels only left .020 m.w.t. on the right barrel/cylinder side, which by the way is the choke with which it left the Parker factory.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Jerry Harlow

Obviously not done by Parker. The .007 removed from the barrels only left .020 m.w.t. on the right barrel/cylinder side, which by the way is the choke with which it left the Parker factory.

I don't disagree with any of this sentiment, it's just that I still think that if you sent your tightly choked Parker to a reputable choke expert today (you pick, Briley? whoever), and documented it well, it would not be as valued by as many as it would (as you well note, Jerry) if it had been done in the past (and documented) by Parker. Let's face it, it's significantly the mystic of Parker that we care about...and/or the nostalgia for a time past...or whatever you believe motivates people to collect and value things. The idea that a documented change of originality by a reputable source in the past makes a gun functionally different from one done just as well by a reputable source is interesting so say the least.

A great thread!

[Autumn Daze]

Garry, One of the true values of The Parker Gun is the wonderful ogee choke found in factory original guns. I just develop loads that shoot well in my Parkers rather than opening those great chokes up. Besides shooting a full choked gun just makes you a better shot.

[C.O.B.]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

If I had a nice Parker 20 or 28 gauge with 26" barrels and F/F chokes that was pretty useless to me for grouse and woodcock in tight cover and spreader loads only gave me the equivalent of Mod/Mod at best, and I chose to open the chokes to Skeet/Skeet or Skeet/LtMod would I be devaluing the gun or making it more of my value for my purposes? Granted, a letter would show F/F but it isn't a 90% gun in anyone's definition anyway.

To a purist it would probably devalue the gun but to the majority of people that would use the gun it would probably be considered beneficial. It would definitely make the gun more useable for you and your applications for it and it's YOUR gun so enjoy it the way you want it.

[Dean Romig]

That's an intriguing concept - "constrictor" loads. Is there such a load available, or a 'component' that will allow us to load our own?





.

[Bindlestiff]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

That's an intriguing concept - "constrictor" loads. Is there such a load available, or a 'component' that will allow us to load our own?

.

When I was a kid and my dad took me to the fire hall for the annual turkey shoot, I would hear storied along those lines. A turkey shoot back then was 25 paper plates stapled to a board some yards away from the firing line. Each plate had an "x", in light pencil, somewhere near the center of the plate. Shooters would buy a position on the line for a buck or two and fire their shotgun at their designated plate. The plate with a hole nearest the "x" won a turkey.

After attending for a few years the rules changed. Shooters could not use their own shells and when they paid for a position at the line, the "official" would give them the shell they had to shoot. It seemed that someone was caught putting something in their shot shell that held the pellets together longer, placing more concentrated pellets on the plate.... giving them a better chance to win.

The talk around town was that people would put molasses, or some kind of thick goo in the shell. I have no idea if its local BS or not, but to this day, when I get back "home", they still hand out shells at turkey shoots.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Robin Lewis

The talk around town was that people would put molasses, or some kind of thick goo in the shell. I have no idea if its local BS or not, but to this day, when I get back "home", they still hand out shells at turkey shoots.

Aren't the new Winchester turkey loads somewhat like the molasses concept? I thought I read that instead of dropping granular buffer in, something was poured (or injected?) into the shot. I shot a turkey on Monday with one of these loads, and I found out by the gobbler what looked like the base of whatever cushioned and surrounded the shot. It looked something like the papery material of a wasp nest. I assumed it was what the poured substance turned into that then holds the shot together for some distance from the muzzle.

Also, I don't know about constrictor loads, but I do know that you can achieve varying patterns in the same gun by altering the loads. I discovered this when patterning guns with different hand loads...and commercial loads. Some barrels "like" certain loads better than others and the change in density from one load to another was noticeable. I'm not patient enough to plot all this out, but I was able to make a cylinder choke shoot close to a modified pattern by altering the speed, size of shot, and shot itself (copper plated). I know there is nothing new here, but I've seen results that suggest you can tighten patterns (I can't say the loads were more effective!).

Robin, I like your turkey shoot anecdote. Although we did not participate in turkey shoots when I was growing up, my Dad took me to some and there was much theorizing about why someone won consistently. I also recall that when you paid your entry fee, you bought your shells also.

BTW, just curious, where is "home?"

[Bindlestiff]

Originally Posted by Garry L Gordon

BTW, just curious, where is "home?"

"Home" was in Beaver county, Pennsylvania.

[J. A. EARLY]

Originally Posted by Robin Lewis

After attending for a few years the rules changed. Shooters could not use their own shells and when they paid for a position at the line, the "official" would give them the shell they had to shoot. It seemed that someone was caught putting something in their shot shell that held the pellets together longer, placing more concentrated pellets on the plate.... giving them a better chance to win.

The talk around town was that people would put molasses, or some kind of thick goo in the shell. I have no idea if its local BS or not, but to this day, when I get back "home", they still hand out shells at turkey shoots.

A guy I worked with attended a lot of turkey shoots. They were shooting Federal paper shells. He wanted an advantage over the 1 1/8 ounce #9 shells and asked if I could help. I loaded 1 1/2 ounces of #9 for him, and you could not tell by looking at the paper Federal. He would pocket the shell given to him and put my load in. Needless to say, his gun was quite loud and had a lot of recoil compared to the others. I don't know if he won but I'm sure they caught on to him.

The new Winchesters have a resin holding the shot at the back of the shot column, supposedly to keep them cushioned and keeping the shot from being deformed. I killed a turkey with the 3" shells this spring. But they only have 1 3/4 ounce compared to the 2 ounce maximum you can get in the 3". I watched a video on you tube and the Winchesters beat the Hevi-shots at 60 yards, even though less shot. Shell construction, wad, shot size, buffer do make a difference. I've found a lot of the large gauge guns shoot bigger size shot better than they do the smaller shot for some reason I don't know. I can get as many 4s in the target as I can 6s at the same distance.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...1638&FORM=VIRE

[Gary Laudermilch]

The turkey shoots I observed in my youth saw guys showing up with guns like the bolt action Marlin goose gun with 36" barrels because they supposedly shot tighter and harder. Withing the last year I saw a shoot advertised that limited barrel length. Maybe the sponsors of the shoot wanted to make sure everyone was shooting from the same distance. Some wives tales just never die, i.e. damascus barrels.