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I use 1/2 in waxed card wads over the black powder sub. ,in my shot shells. what I would like to see is someone make these wads with a couple of big groves to hold some lube , kind of like the max lube lead bullets. the few I modified myself seem to work real good in keeping the fouling soft and lite. real black powder is easy to clean out. the subs seem to leave a hard fouling after 25 shells or so.