Rare BHE .410 4/0-frame sighting

[Bill Murphy]

I have seen some 0000 frame BHEs. They are not prototypes. Their production numbers are well known. End of production of all Repros ended production of the 0000 frame BHE .410s. It was to be a catalogued production item, not a prototype. Kevin McCormack and I had a couple of 0000 .410s in our ".410 Parker" display at the Baltimore Show several years ago. One was a factory BHE and one was a factory Gournet engraved A-1 Special. Geoffroy Gournet has engraved several 0000 frame .410s since production ended. A friend and I ordered two 0000 frame BHEs when we were shown the first prototype, but the order was never filled. The actual production of DHE and BHE 0000 frame .410 has been posted recently. I assume the D engraved, B marked gun at Beinfeld's show is one of the rare DHEs mentioned in the production chart. By the way, many 00 frame .410 barrels are stamped 0000, but the 0000 frame is very different from the 00 frame. I assume that the 33 DHE .410s in the production figures are 00 frame guns. The Vegas gun may be the only D engraved 0000 frame gun out there. Before I sprung for that gun, I would be very sure it was a 0000 frame. Who offered that gun?

[C.O.B.]

I would think the DHE style engraveing would detract from the value. A BHe is a higher grade gun and should therefor look like it.

[Bill Murphy]

Greg, the BHE 0000 frame .410 is not an unusual combination. BHE is the grade that these guns were made in, with the exception of the D engraved one you saw. Without breech ball beads, I question whether it is a 0000 frame. The 0000 frame is very different from the 00 frame and doesn't have what can be described as breech balls. Who offered that unusual gun?

[Wild Skies]

Bill, I never said the BHE 0000-frame .410 was an unusual combination. What I said was that it is unusual in the sense that they are seldom seen. I have been to the Winter Beinfeld Show 11 times, the VC a couple of times, other S x S events many times, local shoots and gun shows and run in circles of S x S enthusiasts and have never had my hands on one before. I also said it was ultra-unusual and extra-odd in the sense that it's a BHE with DHE-style engraving. I would guess that even you would have to admit that is somewhat unusual.

Make no mistake this was indeed a 0000-frame. I compared it to the 00-frame 28/28/.410 A-1 Special I previously mentioned. The frame itself is about 1/16", maybe a hair more narrower than a 00-frame.

The seller's name is Paul Dorsa from Los Gatos, CA. He bought the gun new from Parker
Reproduction dealer Mike Weatherby. Incidently, he also had a .410 Parker on a 000-frame at the show.

[Wild Skies]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

Greg, the BHE 0000 frame .410 is not an unusual combination. BHE is the grade that these guns were made in, with the exception of the D engraved one you saw. Without breech ball beads, I question whether it is a 0000 frame. The 0000 frame is very different from the 00 frame and doesn't have what can be described as breech balls. Who offered that unusual gun?

Please read the remainder of the top left column paragraph in this link:

http://parkerguns.org/forums/album.p...pictureid=1027

Are you saying that the reported 33 factory completed 0000-frame .410 Repros were only built as B-Grades?

[Bill Murphy]

Greg, to begin, you DID state that the BHE grade 0000 frame .410 was unusual among 0000 frame .410s. That is not the case. Among factory finished 0000 frame .410s, the BHE was the catalog gun and the grade they are found in, with the exception of the gun being discussed with the D grade engraving. Kenny, you are beating a dead horse. It has been stated on this forum for years, and again stated by me in this thread, that most, if not all, 00 frame .410 barrels are marked 0000. Additionally, your statement about 0000 frame guns being identified by weight or any other method other than "looking at the frame" is a fallacy. The 0000 frame, for those who have seen one, is very obvious at first glance. There are no exposed breech balls, the hint of a breech ball being inletted into the width of the receiver. You continue to say that only one true 0000 frame .410 has been located. I have seen several, had several in my hands. I resent the fact that you are calling me a bit of a fibber about this. I would like to see Kevin McCormack post here, because he also has seen a few, and had them in his hands. Apparently your "Years of study" didn't show you that the frames are different in appearance and the "weight" is a red herring. Sure, the weight is different, but scales are scarce at Winter Vegas.

[Bill Murphy]

Greg, this is an answer to your last question. Of the 33 finished guns, there are 9 reported to have been "finished and factory engraved to grade". Of these, all known except the gun in question are or should be BHE grade. The remaining 24, working 0000 frame .410s, were white and unengraved. Most were engraved by Geoffroy Gournet after production ceased , with some rumored to be retained by the Skeuse family. For the information of Kenny Graft, I have seen several of the guns in process by Geoffroy, and have also seen a finished A-1 Special by Geoffroy, had it in my hands, and waved it around. I have also had in my hands, a prototype as Kenny refers to it. Kenny is incorrect in saying the 0000 .410 is "only a prototype". It is a production gun. The production figures are well known. The prototype is identical to production 0000 frame .410s as see it. I examined it in detail and have examined other 0000 frame .410s in detail, and saw no difference. I don't know the serial number of the prototype I examined.

[Bill Murphy]

Parker Reproductions Northeast Sales Manager, Ray Stone, visited here on August 31, 1988, to display and promote the Repro and the new .410 BHE. He brought a beautiful little prototype with him for examination and display. My friend, Mel Swerdloff, and I placed orders for identical .410 BHEs, his field choked, mine skeet choked. We had hours to inspect the new gun, but it only took me about five minutes to decide I needed one. Ray didn't know the price of the new gun and I didn't care. I still have a copy of the order.

[edgarspencer]

How can it be a BHE "throughout" but be engraved like a D, No bead, and barrel wedges? Checkering alone doesn't make a BHE, to me