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-   -   PARKER BHE TRAP GUN OR LIVE PIGEON GUN? (https://parkerguns.org/forum/showthread.php?t=46195)

Bill Burwash 03-20-2026 03:43 PM

PARKER BHE TRAP GUN OR LIVE PIGEON GUN?
 
The Parker letter states that my BHE was started in Nov 1905 and completed in Feb 1906. It has 32" steel barrels with 2 3/4" chambers, F&X chokes, double triggers, ejectors, no safety, Monte Carlo comb with straight English style grip, checkered butt and weighs 7 lbs 11 oz. More details are given in the companion thread titled Parker BHE Engraving Styles.
My question is whether this gun was intended for live pigeons or clay (trap) shooting. I look forward to your comments.

Reggie Bishop 03-20-2026 04:41 PM

Yes would be my answer. To both.

Jim DiSpagno 03-20-2026 04:44 PM

As Reggie stated, both as live bird shooting was on the decline in the US, trap shooting at clay targets was on the rise at the time this wonderful gun was made.

Dave Noreen 03-20-2026 05:55 PM

The first Grand American Handicap at clay targets was in 1900. The last Grand American Handicap at live birds was in 1902. The International Flyer Championship was held at Kansas City 1917 to 1941. Your BHE certainly could have been used for either.

Drew Hause 03-20-2026 05:56 PM

Bill: did the letter document who originally ordered the gun? If so, we could investigate if he was a well-known shooter.

Bill Burwash 03-20-2026 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Hause (Post 446425)
Bill: did the letter document who originally ordered the gun? If so, we could investigate if he was a well-known shooter.

The gun was made for Isaac Pitbaldo of Winnipeg Manitoba. However, the gun was sent to Marshall Wells Hardware in Duluth MN. Mr Pitbaldo must have travelled to Duluth for business, or maybe shooting, and took the gun back home.
The Parker letter says that the gun order was taken Mr Du Bray who was a senior salesman for Parker as well as a world class pigeon and trap shooter.
I'm not aware whether there was a tie between Messrs Du Bray and Pitbaldo or not.
Mr Pitbaldo was a well established lawyer and keen sportsman and a member of a waterfowling club in the famous Delta Marsh northwest of Winnipeg. He and his son were part of a group that founded Ducks Unlimited around 1937.
Thanks for volunteering to do some research.
Bill

Reggie Bishop 03-20-2026 06:38 PM

You own an interesting Parker! Very nice!

todd allen 03-20-2026 07:00 PM

That fits the description and qualifications of a pigeon gun.
As for the Golden Age of pigeon shooting, I feel like I lived it. The vast majority of my experience has been Perazzi, but I blocked out periods that were dedicated to the Parker Brothers purpose built target guns.
During this period, I entered a few sporting clays shoots with these guns.
I was a registered AA shooter, so I would sign in into the Hunter Class as Arthur du Bray.
One particular shoot I tied with a Master Class shooter from Utah, who knew me quite well. The chatter at the clubhouse was mostly about "Who is this duBray guy?" I was shooting a 1874 250 Grade Underlifter.
There was a bunch of pointing and elbow jabbing when the gallery saw me show up with an ancient hammer gun for a shoot-off against one of our top SC shooters.
I could tell a lot of stories about shooting various dedicated competition guns from Parker against all comers in pigeon games.
It's been my experience that the single sight plane guns hold an advantage in many target games, especially with the long complicated presentations in SCs, but the SxSs hold up well in the box bird games.

todd allen 03-20-2026 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Burwash (Post 446417)
The Parker letter states that my BHE was started in Nov 1905 and completed in Feb 1906. It has 32" steel barrels with 2 3/4" chambers, F&X chokes, double triggers, ejectors, no safety, Monte Carlo comb with straight English style grip, checkered butt and weighs 7 lbs 11 oz. More details are given in the companion thread titled Parker BHE Engraving Styles.
My question is whether this gun was intended for live pigeons or clay (trap) shooting. I look forward to your comments.

I would really love to see some pictures of this one.

Drew Hause 03-20-2026 07:13 PM

Apparently more interested in golf & curling
https://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/people/pitblado_i.shtml

No hits in the Sporting Life archives which reported major Canadian trap shoots.

He was friends with Dan Bain, who won the The Dominion of Canada Trap Shooting Championship in Toronto in 1903

Live Pigeon competitions became much less popular in Great Britain and Canada after the 1900 Paris Olympic Games, but I couldn't find a date when they were outlawed by legislation.

CraigThompson 03-21-2026 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd allen (Post 446430)
That fits the description and qualifications of a pigeon gun.
As for the Golden Age of pigeon shooting, I feel like I lived it. The vast majority of my experience has been Perazzi, but I blocked out periods that were dedicated to the Parker Brothers purpose built target guns.
During this period, I entered a few sporting clays shoots with these guns.
I was a registered AA shooter, so I would sign in into the Hunter Class as Arthur du Bray.
One particular shoot I tied with a Master Class shooter from Utah, who knew me quite well. The chatter at the clubhouse was mostly about "Who is this duBray guy?" I was shooting a 1874 250 Grade Underlifter.
There was a bunch of pointing and elbow jabbing when the gallery saw me show up with an ancient hammer gun for a shoot-off against one of our top SC shooters.
I could tell a lot of stories about shooting various dedicated competition guns from Parker against all comers in pigeon games.
It's been my experience that the single sight plane guns hold an advantage in many target games, especially with the long complicated presentations in SCs, but the SxSs hold up well in the box bird games.

I’ve not been in the pigeon ring games for more than 5 or 6 years , but I’ve never fired at a pigeon be it Colombaire or boxbirds with anything but a Parker same can be said for boxbird quail . I have a Peruvian friend that goes to the kings cup each year and he keeps telling me a 32” guns to long for Colombaire he may be correct but over the years all but two races have been shot with tight choked 32” guns and the other two were shot with a 30” gun .

John Davis 03-21-2026 07:31 AM

Manitoba was part of DuBray’s territory. You’ll find in Parkers in Pulp where he made a number of business trips there and enjoyed the hunting as well. No doubt the order was placed on one of those visits.

Daryl Corona 03-21-2026 08:41 AM

I preferred 28" for Columbaire and 30" for box birds for the simple reason I could move them quicker to the bird.

Bill Burwash 03-21-2026 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd allen (Post 446431)
I would really love to see some pictures of this one.

There are a number of pic and a long interesting discussion on this gun in a companion thread titled Parker BHE Engraving Patterns. The thread is about 6 down from this thread.

Bill Burwash 03-21-2026 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew Hause (Post 446432)
Apparently more interested in golf & curling
https://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/people/pitblado_i.shtml

No hits in the Sporting Life archives which reported major Canadian trap shoots.

He was friends with Dan Bain, who won the The Dominion of Canada Trap Shooting Championship in Toronto in 1903

Live Pigeon competitions became much less popular in Great Britain and Canada after the 1900 Paris Olympic Games, but I couldn't find a date when they were outlawed by legislation.

Thanks, Drew. Looks like Mr Pitbaldo was associated with trap shooting to some extent.

Bill Burwash 03-21-2026 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Davis (Post 446447)
Manitoba was part of DuBray’s territory. You’ll find in Parkers in Pulp where he made a number of business trips there and enjoyed the hunting as well. No doubt the order was placed on one of those visits.

Thanks. Very interesting. DuBray sure covered a lot of territory. Winnipeg was a small town back in the 1900's and I can't image he sold many Parkers.

Bill Burwash 03-21-2026 12:12 PM

Interesting that there is still a number of pigeon shooters in this modern day and shooting vintage guns. Congratulations.
My pigeon shooting has been confined to the barnyard type. Except for 3 trips to Argentina for doves and pigeons. Back then you were limited to 200 pigeons per person per day---that has been reduced in the past few years to 100 or maybe less. There was no limit on doves. I rented guns from the outfitter as bring guns from Canada to Argentina in a pain.

CraigThompson 03-21-2026 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Burwash (Post 446466)
Interesting that there is still a number of pigeon shooters in this modern day and shooting vintage guns. Congratulations.
My pigeon shooting has been confined to the barnyard type. Except for 3 trips to Argentina for doves and pigeons. Back then you were limited to 200 pigeons per person per day---that has been reduced in the past few years to 100 or maybe less. There was no limit on doves. I rented guns from the outfitter as bring guns from Canada to Argentina in a pain.

Nothing wrong with shooting pigeons in the barnyard ! In Argentina in my one trip I enjoyed shooting the pigeons more than the dove . But when I comes to shotgun shooting games hands down I’ll take Colombaire first boxbirds second over any of the clay target games .

Bill Burwash 03-21-2026 01:43 PM

All of my shooting partners in Argentina preferred pigeons over doves as well.
I've never had the opportunity to shoot competitive pigeons. But have shot a ton of clay targets.

CraigThompson 03-21-2026 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Burwash (Post 446472)
All of my shooting partners in Argentina preferred pigeons over doves as well.
I've never had the opportunity to shoot competitive pigeons. But have shot a ton of clay targets.

Forty years ago I wanted to get an invitation to one of the decent sized box bird shoots . At that time you needed to know someone to get an invite . Anyway the people I knew that did it told me I’d be broke in a year shooting pigeons competitively so I didn’t get to try it until perhaps six years ago . And yeah I now u der stand what they meant about entry fees at the larger boxbird shoots or Colombaire for that matter . The place I normally do this is typically no more than $400 a day for 15 birds . Where as a big boxbird shoot in PA or GA or TX might set you back $3k a day if you play all the options .

Bill Murphy 03-21-2026 04:18 PM

In most box bird or Columbaire shoots, the purse is mandatory except for juniors or ladies. Often senior shooters don't have to play the purse either. You must read the program to find out what you must play.


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