16 Gauge Shells
 

Does anyone know of a good source, other than RST, for 16 gauge shells? I love RST but am looking for a less expensive source for target rounds.

Much thanks!

Herters ammo through Cabela's seems to be popular but they are 2 3/4". You did not mention your chamber length. If it is 2 1/2" you might be stuck with RST or reloading unless some of the other members knows of a source. Check that wall thickness before using the modern ammo or any ammo for that matter.

I just noticed those as well. Reasonable at $7 per box. I’m going to have the gun checked including,of course, min wall thickness. The barrels are fluid steel, so it may be just fine. If it is, I may go with the Herters shells.

Herters are probably the least expensive 16 G target shell. They have a bit to much recoil to suit my SXS Parkers & high volume targets though. Reload is a good option

William

We are not “stuck with RST or reloading” if looking for low pressure 2 ½" 16-gauge shells.

The link posted above to Polywad will lead you to a second source.

That company now offers a low-recoil 16-gauge Spreader load in 2 1/2". I believe that formerly the 2 1/2 " Spreader loads it produced were higher pressure, albeit within a 2 1/2" shell.

As for price, well... ammo for vintage guns is a specialty item for a narrow market segment.

Not sure what it will mean for the future, but the company is under new ownership.

I have always enjoyed excellent results with polywad ammo. I have not heard about a change in ownership. Do you have any details ?

Polywad would not be an improvement in price over RST. I buy 2 1/2 DE 1 ounce 16s from Remington. I have bought from Dick's at about $5.00 a box minus coupons, although Dick's is no longer our friend politically.

The Remington shells would be perfect, if I can find them. Sadly, Dicks is no longer an option.

The Rems are 2 3/4" , but are 2 1/2 dram equivalent. I have been told they are slightly shorter than 2 3/4, havent measured them. The recoil would probably have a little bite if fired in a light 2 1/2" chamber gun. I believe you are looking for shells to fire in your new 16 hammer gun--at least it ihas fluid steel barrels, so the extra pressure rise might not be a problem. I load almost nothing but 2 1/2" shells now for my 16's (9 of them). 7/8 oz and 3/4 oz thru a 16 are sweet shooters, but if you dont reload that is a moot point.

Jeff:

The newer 16 gauge 2 ½ inch spreader loads that I referenced, have in fact been around for some years. They are called DoubleWide, have less than 1 ounce of shot, 6-8 thousand-pound pressures and are intended for vintage guns.

In contrast, the longer-running, but still 2 ½ inch 16-gauge spreader ammo with 1 ounce of shot was introduced further back, that is, in the 1990s. This product was intended to have recoil circa 1200-1225, sufficient enough to cycle shells through such as the short-chambered Auto 5.

The company was sold last Fall to Todd Raymond who reportedly has other ammunition business interests.

If you want low recoil for high volume 16 G targets it's RST or Load your own. All other factory ammunition I am aware of is loaded to cycle Auto's & will wear you out shooting 100 shot round of clays. Hunting another thing.

Setting up to load low recoil 16 is not expensive or complicated. Round count over a few boxes at a time it's worth it. Few flats a year buy RST. I do both, couple of flats from RST at shoots, save the empty hulls then load. Hulls wear out get a few more flats from RST.

William

Bill:

Aside from the reloading option, why would the Polywad Vintager loads not meet Joe’s needs for his 16-gauge hammer gun, while RST loads would? The cost per box of both company’s comparable-appearing product is $11.00.

Both loads are represented to be, in a 2 ½ inch 16-gauge shell, low recoil and low pressure. (I am not talking about the original Spread-R. load)

In recent years I have used RST more often than Polywad in old and light-weight guns. But, is there a significant difference between the low-pressure, soft-on-the-shoulder offerings of the two companies?

Or, is it that the RST hull is more suited for re-loading?

The polywads may be very suitable, I have never used them, friend at the 5 stand last week had some and was going to ask his opinion but did not get around to it. RST hulls are Cheddites and not great hulls, but few good hulls available in 16 G. Gave up on anything else and worked out how to load Cheddites. Short of it is Mec 600 with the short kit, DR 16 wad, 3/4 oz shot Hodgdon International powder.

Way I calculate about 150 to 200 dollars to set up short 16 loading: used press short kit and ballistic products brass pre crimper . Cost of components excluding hulls is about 4 dollars a box. Forgot what I paid for two flats of RST at the Vintagers probably 150 ? That would be 7.50 per box. More expensive ordered in small quantities and shipped no doubt.

You have to shoot 5 or 6 flats to make loading pay . With a Parker Hammer 16 and Trojan 16 using least 1000 16 G shells per year I am ahead of the game loading, all figures from my head.

That’s why I say small quantity better to buy from RST. It’s a top quality load.

Afterthought, Ballistic products had primed empty 2 1/2 inch 16 G Cheddites back ordered for several years, last month they called, now in stock. I bought 3 bags.

William

William:

One other thing I should have noted: There may be comparable pressures between the two company’s light 16-gauge offerings if using the shells with 7/8th ounces of shot. But, I believe only RST offers ¾ ounce 16-gauge loads. That gets the RST Falcon Ultra Lite in ¾ oz. down to 4300 psi, which is the ammo I have lately been using.

I had a very painful shoulder dislocation nearly 30 years ago, which can still give me trouble; so these “lite and lighter” target products are much-appreciated. And, they do avert any re-subluxations (which I have experienced when shooting game loads).

Agree with you on the low recoil. I have a couple of shoulder issues too. Have a few boxes of Herters 16s left and don’t even want to fire them in my 6 lb 11 oz Trojan. Hammer gun is a bit lighter twist barrels and much older. Better go 3/4 oz low pressure. It breaks clays well to 30 yards thanks to Parker chokes .

I may have been wrong on cost of RST, spend so much at the Southern it’s hard to keep track. 4 dollars per box my reloads is accurate.

William

William, what exactly is the Herter load that is more than you want to handle?

Herters one oz field load. It’s fine for low volume shooting. 100 Shot round of clays felt recoil is more in a under 6 lb 11 oz Trojan 16 than 8 lb VH 12 G using 7/8 oz. Its not all that bad but why shoot heavier shot weight and have more recoil in 16 than 12.

Main thing with factory 16 G, excepting RST, they all function recoil operated autos like Remington 11 or Brownings. No need in SXS Guns.

William

I’ve been using Federal, Remington and Winchester 1 oz 16ga shells for almost 50 years on Parker fluid steel and Damascus barreled guns from A grade to P grade. No problems at all. If you want 7/8 oz loads you need to buy RST shells or load your own.

https://i.imgur.com/oUmyM4I.jpg

Short kit on the Mec Sizemaster.
1 oz, 7/8 oz and 3/4 oz.
Same hull, wad and recipe.

Nice crimps, What powder & wad do you use.

William

IMR SR 7625
BP/SPTG16

6400 - 7200 PSI with velocities between 1125 and 1175 FPS depending.
My wife Julie likes "her 16" loaded with the soft 3/4 oz variety.

https://i.imgur.com/dGgG6YB.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/JMV3Hef.jpg

Short 16
 

I just got a flat of 1oz 16 ga 2 9/16 length ammo from Aerostar. They are p&g.
I would not recommend them for old parkers or LCs. They are stout for an older SxS. NIDs or Sterlingworths in good condition can handle them ok.

I pulled your load up on Hodgdens site, looks like a good one. Load I use, also from Hodgdon, uses DR 16 wads so many on hand will stick with it. Next order will try some of the BP wads the DR wad is cramped with 7/8 oz shot.

William

I’m sitting on what feels like a lifetime supply.
If you’ll pm me an address, I’ll send you a gross.
Bobby.

Like to have 25 to try, will send you my address.

Thanks

William

The BP/SPTG16 with 7/8 oz shot will even have room for a BP spreader disc. :whistle:

I have a fairly new sizemaster. Would a ballistic products brass pre crimper decrease the number of bad crimps that you never get on a 12g. Mec?

I think so, others say they don’t work well. The New style plastic spin pre crimp caused me trouble in my two 600 JRs 10 & 16 G with short kits and used with Cheddite hulls.

Way I run the brass pre-crimp, fixed it does not spin. I have to align the fingers with the hulls crimp fold. Slows things down a bit but crushed crimps do too. I never loose a hull on crimping now.

William

Thanks for the response.

I have been buying the Western 2 1/2 x 7/8 loads 1200 ft/sec, they are reasonable and work well, The Super X 1210 ft/sec are a little more expensive but still reasonable.
https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/win...ildCatid=28452

I have had no issues with using the cheddite hull and reload RST hulls exclusively in 12, 16, & 20 all 2 1/2 inch. I use MEC 6000's in all gauges and haven't had any problems breaking clays or killing birds with 7/8th to 3/4 oz loading. If you go to some of the shoots like the Southern or the North East you can pick up a good supply of one fired cases in most gauges. I get what I consider good case life out of the RST hull and usually load them 6 times or so before tossing them.

I shot the RST paper shells with 7/8 oz loads at the Vintagers on Saturday. What a difference they made in a light 16 ga hammergun. The gun went from rather stout recoil with Federal 1 oz loads to a much more pleasant experience with the RST shells. They also broke the clays nicely. Yes, they are more expensive but now I agree, worth it. I bought a few boxes to take home and a box of 7/8 oz spreader loads for an upcoming quail hunt in Georgia.

Fiocchis are excellent in the 16 ga. I have used them for years.

I'll hunt with the RST and love the paper shells. My favorite is the two inch 12. I have gone mostly to a 3/4 oz load and still break targets and they are very effective on quail.

Joe where in Georgia do you go? Three of us have been going to Morrison Pines in Moultree for the last four years. Returning again in Jan.

This will be my first GA trip. We are doing a three generation hunt with my father and my son. We will hunt at Rio Piedra in Camilla. I’ll hunt with the Belgian 16 hammer and my 1881 Parker lifter. For that, the AA low noise/low recoil are very sweet. I’ll also bring the 1893 Ithaca for my son and my dad will light em up with his .410 Stevens. Add an after hunt cigar and bourbon. Ahhh, can’t wait. I’ll have to check out Morrison Pines.

Rio Piedra is an excellent place and had a very memorable experience there. I hunted there many years ago. Have been to many plantation hunts in South Georgia and they are all pretty good with some better than others and Rio Piedra is top notch and is a pretty place to hunt along the Flint River bottoms. A lot of times terrain on most of these places in South Georgia can be fairly flat and RP has some of that in their quiver of locations they maintain. Getting to hunt close to the river was special with its undulating terrain, dry oxbo draws and ancient river banks left over as the Flint has changed course over thousands of years. Topo was not particularly tough to navigate but it added to challenge of the hunt and not because we were out of shape, physically limited or hungover. It was because they had enough birds that had survived a season or two along with predation that they had figured out safe terrain and thick cover.

When we hunted they had already had established operations in several places but they were trying to get some new locations up to speed. Plenty of challenging birds that can be found in very easily accessible areas to get your bird limit in beautiful hunting areas endemic of what a managed landscape South Georgia quail hunt is supposed to look like.

The grounds and game management system they employ is top notch. I grew up hunting wild quail and as far as a commercial operation the birds at Rio Piedra flew and behaved about as close to wild game as you can get. We hunted there in early December so that can make a difference. All our covey rises behaved like wild birds and there were no stragglers, and if dogs got on point there was no time for a leisure stroll to get into position or birds may break on you even with some experienced well trained quality dog work. We actually had to hunt pretty hard to find covey's which I thoroughly enjoyed because of the excellent dog work that was required. It was hunting and not just shooting since you had to work to get your limit and that was part of the reward and value add part of experience.

It is not that there aren't a lot of birds but the areas we hunted were so big there were so many places for them to be. We averaged about 10 coveys per hunt over three days and 4 hunts. We covered a lot of ground but not all they controlled. Some places steer you away from chasing singles after a covey rise but we chased them and we really had to work together to mark birds to follow up on and I found out later why. Second flushes were challenging as well and that is when the solid dog work is really fun to watch.

After that first day we told guide that we wanted to hunt some areas less traveled. He got a gleam in his eye and said perfect since it would take some pressure off some areas. He took us to an area that they had just started managing near the river. The fields were in place but edge cover was thick and needed thinning. They put out a good many birds to get base population going but after being hunted a few times seems a batch of them had figured out the area and there were a couple of river coveys. That was reason after covey rises we hunted singles hard because if they got away they would merge into the river coveys that were mobs. Still remember the guide chuckling in a dead run as soon as dog got on point along the river bank. We had to sprint almost 75 yards and luckily the first covey held. There might of been 50 birds in that first one along the river and they would flush wild and then fly across the river. Now I have experienced plenty of large covey flushes but nothing like these. It was a sight to behold. We saw three coveys and only got a shot at first covey rise, the other two broke as soon as a dog got within 20 yards of them.

The food was great and what you would expect at a high end restaurant and I appreciated it even though I have a less demanding palate. The accommodations were top notch as well. Hanging out on the covered porches, then by the river and then later by the outdoor fireplace with a roaring fire and more than a few adult beverages really was satisfying. BTW we also saw some incredible deer and story at the time was that the chef was only one allowed to hunt the deer as part of the condition of his employment.

Sorry Joe got carried away remembering my time there. BTW not a paid advertisement. I don't think it will disappoint at all. Your 16 gauge will work serve you well there. Also when we hunted there they were about to get property on both sides of Flint for those river coveys that traded back and forth.

Southpaw, thanks for all the excellent info on Rio Piedra. I passed it on to my father and to my son. We can wait to go. Now that we are all adults, it’s not often we get to hunt together. I’ll post pics after the hunt.

Joe you can do a search for Morrison pines and see some of the reports here. I don't think it's far from RP. Three generations sounds like fun and a good family outing. When are you going? I have to warn you this gets into your system.

I have no doubt about it getting in my system. We are going in late Oct. I suspect I will be back regularly.