What is the difference between a Trap model and a Pigeon model? The only thing I can see in the ads is barrel length.

About $50, which was a lot of money back then ;)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trap-Skee...n%201902-M.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trap-Skee...n%201901-M.jpg

Thanks Drew. Barrel length was really the only I saw and you confirmed that.

The Pigeon Gun was fully engraved by George ? Ulrich and 28" barrel as standard. Of course, for that money, you could probably have any barrel length. Oddly, every Pigeon Gun I have ever seen has the 28" barrel.

This 1915 Folder shows the Trap Grade in 12-gauge "standard" with the 30-inch barrels but one could have 32-, 28- or 26-inch, and in 16-gauge with a 28-inch barrel.

Attachment 139888

The Pigeon Grade only lists 28-inch barrels in both gauges.

Attachment 139887

In the paper Winchester called them Trap Grade and Pigeon Grade on the firearms themselves they marked them on the bolt TRAP GUN and PIGEON GUN.

Attachment 139889

Attachment 139890

Mrs. Topperwein

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Went to visit a neighbor today, a retired LA City Fire Captain. He won a number of medals with their skeet team. Down in his man cave he asked me to take a shotgun down off the rack. And I'll be darned if it wasn't a Model 97. It was old and looked well used. I'd never had one in my hands before today. He's such a nice guy and took me under his wing when we moved down here to SC. He introduced me to a skeet field for the first time 6 years ago.

I have a Trap Gun with the black diamond in the wrist. Did all Trap Guns have the black diamond?

The Trap and Pigeon Grades had the black diamond. Early on the Tournament Grade also had the black diamond, but in the February 1914 Winchester shotgun folder they state they are omitting it from the Tournament Grade. What the folks on the factory floor were doing and when the folks in the office got it in the folders and catalogs can vary!

In the mid- 1930s for both the Model 12 and 97 the Tournament Grade was replaced with the Standard Trap and the Trap Grade was replaced with the Special Trap, but they continued using the Trap Grade picture in the catalogs through 1938. In the 1939 Catalog only the Model 97 Standard Grade is shown and they state, "Furnished also, on special order only, in Trap Gun or Pigeon Grade." By the 1940 catalog only the Model 97 Standard Grade is listed and no mention of any Trap Gun or Pigeon Grade.

Dave,

Thanks so much. You always live up to your handle!

Best,
Brett