Something different - Winchester 97 with Vent Rib

[Frank Srebro]

I've always liked Winchester Model 97's and here's an interesting one I came across recently ..... 12-gauge with a 30" barrel, choked I-Mod, made in 1956 at the tail end of production. Reworked by Simmons to include one of its vent ribs. Nice dimensions at 1-5/8 by 2-5/8 by 14-3/8" LOP over the WRA recoil pad. I'll be trying her out at Sporting and Trap once the clubs open up. A hammer pump gun; that should turn some heads!
.

[David Livesay]

I also like Model 1897's and have one from 1945 and one from 1950. Yours does appear nice and has some added features.

[edgarspencer]

I'd know that sound anywhere. Nothing sounds like a '97 when you rack it.

[matt koepnick]

That gun would fit me perfectly, and made same year as me.. Nice find Sir. Hope it's "the one" for ya.
Mattly

[Dave Noreen]

I long wanted a Model 97 as two of my research interests, Ansley H. Fox and Harold B. Money (De Shootinest Gent'man), spent time shucking them for the Big W. Finally got a high condition, late, 1003775, 12-gauge 30-inch full. I shot it a few times and found it required much more precise pumping than one can get away with with a Model 12/42 or Remington Model 31. Pretty quickly traded it off on a Superposed.

[Drew Hause]

A not very good pic of Fox and his 97 at the 1901 GAH at Live Birds

https://photos.smugmug.com/US-Makers/Fox/i-zhXQ48h/0/LhRkL4NxcMzssWMdnFbr2PrX3RmrZdmkKSKxb3xcV/L/A.H.%20Fox%201901%20GAH%20resized-L.png (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/US-Makers/Fox/i-zhXQ48h/A)

Frank & Dave both have a pic of those who went 25 straight, including Fox

Hard not to include the great J.A.R. Elliott in the long list of turn-of-the-century M97 shooters

Sept. 1897 Sporting Life

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-k5Wzbj9/0/Mdq63QNqFwHtm4BGDC75ZQHnv6d5WzpZPgqDgHb6B/XL/Sept.%204%2C%201897%20Sporting%20Life-XL.png (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-k5Wzbj9/A)

[todd allen]

That's pretty cool, an M 97 with a vent rib. I've owned a few 97s, and currently own an all original one with a Damascus barrel.

[Frank Srebro]

Thanks all. Just some additional info; I believe this M97 was restocked by Simmons when it added the Vent Rib. Otherwise with a factory stock the drop at heel would be way more than the 2-5/8" it does measure. Also the action works just as slick as my Model 12's I use for Sporting. Apparently Simmons did some polishing and other work inside when it jeweled the bolt etc.

[Drew Hause]

1902 DAH depended on LOP

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-XmpDWkR/0/NWnj76JqVxkwF6jcppCSG6Zkc33bSfCFzP7NKQ82q/L/1902%201897%20H.H.%20Kiffe-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-XmpDWkR/A)

The 97 Trap had a DAH of 2 1/8"; 1903

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-Kcrjvbt/0/MZ7gf5gFQLMXNbLBSGWcXBD35rDTKwJqJpbQtsfM7/M/Winchester%201897%20%20Supplee%20Hardware%20-%20Trap%201902-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-Kcrjvbt/A)

The 97 Tournament 1 13/16"; 1909

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-fgjHs7m/0/KxjNHJMMmFCfmw2swG7LJ9vJxgjtsFxNf7vLP2trK/M/Model%201897%20Tournament%201909-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-fgjHs7m/A)

[Dave Noreen]

The Winchester catalogs showed pretty straight dimensions. From 1933 --

139871

From the big 1955 catalog --

139872

I would have expected a very late gun to have the flat-bottom semi-beavertail slide handle. The one I briefly owned did.

139873

[Mike Koneski]

What is the difference between a Trap model and a Pigeon model? The only thing I can see in the ads is barrel length.

[Drew Hause]

About $50, which was a lot of money back then ;)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-456p43H/0/MHmcDCv8mcS54BQCWFNNfHn4Gg63ZQ8W6z3dZgFLj/M/Winchester%201897%20Black%20Diamond%20Pigeon%20190 2-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-456p43H/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-jSh48gF/0/M5ZNTScgxFTLFbb7Nr5ks3SVB2QpqQsZVFMxgVZbT/M/Model%201897%20Black%20Diamond%20Pigeon%201901-M.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Trap-Skeet/Winchester/i-jSh48gF/A)

[Mike Koneski]

Thanks Drew. Barrel length was really the only I saw and you confirmed that.

[Bill Murphy]

The Pigeon Gun was fully engraved by George ? Ulrich and 28" barrel as standard. Of course, for that money, you could probably have any barrel length. Oddly, every Pigeon Gun I have ever seen has the 28" barrel.

[Dave Noreen]

This 1915 Folder shows the Trap Grade in 12-gauge "standard" with the 30-inch barrels but one could have 32-, 28- or 26-inch, and in 16-gauge with a 28-inch barrel.

139888

The Pigeon Grade only lists 28-inch barrels in both gauges.

139887

In the paper Winchester called them Trap Grade and Pigeon Grade on the firearms themselves they marked them on the bolt TRAP GUN and PIGEON GUN.

139889

139890

[Drew Hause]

Mrs. Topperwein

https://photos.smugmug.com/Shooters/Ladies-/i-CTv3LMn/0/KcDmrks4tzfC2wt2Zt3fRFcF2FWBGgTJPRxL72FXw/L/Plinky%20Topperwein%204-L.jpg (https://drewhause.smugmug.com/Shooters/Ladies-/i-CTv3LMn/A)

[Chris Pope]

Went to visit a neighbor today, a retired LA City Fire Captain. He won a number of medals with their skeet team. Down in his man cave he asked me to take a shotgun down off the rack. And I'll be darned if it wasn't a Model 97. It was old and looked well used. I'd never had one in my hands before today. He's such a nice guy and took me under his wing when we moved down here to SC. He introduced me to a skeet field for the first time 6 years ago.

[Brett Trimble]

I have a Trap Gun with the black diamond in the wrist. Did all Trap Guns have the black diamond?

[Dave Noreen]

The Trap and Pigeon Grades had the black diamond. Early on the Tournament Grade also had the black diamond, but in the February 1914 Winchester shotgun folder they state they are omitting it from the Tournament Grade. What the folks on the factory floor were doing and when the folks in the office got it in the folders and catalogs can vary!

In the mid- 1930s for both the Model 12 and 97 the Tournament Grade was replaced with the Standard Trap and the Trap Grade was replaced with the Special Trap, but they continued using the Trap Grade picture in the catalogs through 1938. In the 1939 Catalog only the Model 97 Standard Grade is shown and they state, "Furnished also, on special order only, in Trap Gun or Pigeon Grade." By the 1940 catalog only the Model 97 Standard Grade is listed and no mention of any Trap Gun or Pigeon Grade.

[Brett Trimble]

Dave,

Thanks so much. You always live up to your handle!

Best,
Brett

[Mike Franzen]

What a great gun. Makes me want one.

[Bill Murphy]

I have owned both Tournament and Trap Grade 97s, with and without matted barrels, and Tournament Grades with and without black diamond inlays. I also own an original Trap Grade without checkering, but with fancy wood and black diamond inlay. Back when, you got what you asked for or what you were willing to pay for.

[Stan Hillis]

My grandad told me he wore a '97 out, shooting doves, ducks and quail. That is quite a statement and I've always marveled at the amount of wing shooting he would have had to have done to accomplish that.

Whan I was born in '51 he was shooting a Rem. M11 in 16 ga. As I grew to love shotguns I heard of an incident where he killed six quail on a covey rise. I was told this by a hunting partner of his. When I asked him how he did that he said his pumpgun would hold seven shells. I asked him if it had an external hammer and he said yes. Then, I knew he had been using a '97. When I asked him why he didn't keep it he replied "It was worn out!".

[Frank Srebro]

George Madis reported that in 1943 at the height of WW2, Winchester ran an advert on its Model '97 to include one named "Old Reliable" that was then testing shotshells for the Army Air Corps after firing 1,247,000 rounds over 29 years. On March 13, 1914, M.A. Robinson, Winchester Ballistic Engineer, took serial number 128195 at random out of the regular production line. This '97 was assigned exclusively to testing Winchester ammunition and had been fired heavily and with only one broken firing pin and spring over those 29 years. The advert goes on to say that 128195 was given the name "Old Reliable" by factory personnel and now tests the production ammunition used in training aerial machine gunners on how to lead fast moving Axis planes and shoot them out of the skies.

No doubt Old Reliable was cleaned and lubricated regularly but even so, what a record! 1,247,000 rounds. Try that with a modern repeater. :)