Pachmayr Model 12 Upgrade

[Brett Trimble]

Gents,

I have been looking at a 12ga Winchester Model 12, Pachmayr upgrade. Elaborate scroll and game scene engraving, gold inlayed birds etc. please see pictures. The gun has been shot, has a few minor dings in the finish near the recoil pad which could probably be repaired. There is minor but visible ware on the magazine tube from the slide handle and on the bolt release button.

The man that’s selling it has wanted $6k. He’s signaling that he’d sell it for much less.

Does anyone have an idea about what it might be worth in today’s market? I’m going to take some pictures tomorrow and will post them in this thread.

Brett

[Jim DiSpagno]

Ask Josh Lowensteiner via PM

[Brett Trimble]

Thanks Jim!

[David C Porter]

Is there paper work establishing it's a Pachmayr upgrade. No paperwork, it's only hearsay. We need to see photos to establish value.

[Brett Trimble]

Will find out..

[Bill Davis]

All I can say for sure is that it does have an original Winchester model 12 duck Bill ventilated rib. I have owned a number of Pachmayr upgraded guns that were sold through ducks Unlimited and they are generally very nice Guns. Their workmanship is very good and the engraving is fairly nice overall. I would need to have the serial number, barrel length, choke, and better full length pictures to assess what you have. It looks to be a nice gun, but it’s not a $6000 gun. It is probably an upgraded factory trap or skeet gun that has a reasonable value, but not that range. Get some more information in photos and I’ll answer you as best as I can.

[Brett Trimble]

I added a pic showing the serial number. Barrel length is 28in, full choke.

[Bill Davis]

Ok, here’s my opinion based on what I see in the pictures. The gun was made in 1961. It looks like an original two pin, ventilated rib, but Simmons would also add the duck bill for an extra fee when installing their aftermarket vent rib. Does the ribs say Simmons on the left side? I would’ve expected the barrel to be 26 inches or 30 inches. The fact that it is 28 inches and full choke suggest that it might have been a field gun that was upgraded and not a factory trap or skeet gun. The wood is very nice and obviously it’s aftermarket that is not Winchester wood. The engraving is good, but not great. Without the gun in hands to examine it thoroughly and with the pictures that have been offered, I would value the gun at retail in the vicinity of $4000. that being said, in today’s market 12 gauge Guns do not move readily, and I would not consider this gun an investment grade gun that will increase in value. If, the rib does say Simmons, I would decrease my evaluation by $750 or so. This is just one man’s opinion and others will surely disagree with me, but that is as good as I can do what has been presented. I hope this helps!.

[Brett Trimble]

Thank you

[Alfred Houde]

FWIW:

Green Top Sporting Goods in Virginia has for sale a Westley Richards 12-gauge SxS; straight-grip; with a fitted leather case, paperwork, and exact same engraved shield in the stock.

They are currently asking $6,999.

[Bill Murphy]

I would not guess that this gun is a two pin ventilated rib gun. A 28" vent rib is a rare and unlikely factory item. More likely is a Simmons retrofit field grade gun. My guess is a Simmons rib, misaligned at the extension, hard to solve that problem. If the starting point would have been a nice two pin vent rib gun, the value would be much higher. Pachmayr donated guns are not a hot item on the collector market. There is no real shading in the engraving background, just punchdots. Has anyone seen a pheasant looking back at you on the flush? Overall, not a very neat gun.

[Dave Noreen]

The Winchester Ventilated Rib (aka two-pin) was only manufactured in 12-gauge and two barrel lengths -- 30-inch for Trap Guns and 26 3/4-inch for Skeet Guns. One would have to machine posts on the barrel in different locations and then machine a rib to match to make a 28-inch barrel.

[Bill Murphy]

It's not a two pin, but of course we would know that if we had a picture of the top of the receiver.

[Brett Trimble]

Thanks so much, gentleman. I don’t know enough about these to know what to take pictures of. However, I’ve learned enough from your comments to understand that I should pass on this gun.

Again, my sincere thanks!

Brett

[Eddie Kay]

My 1949 WS-1 2 pin Skeet. https://i.postimg.cc/X7tF83v2/DSC03780.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/gjXjXX8B/DSC03781.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/CKhKC6b6/DSC03782.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/fTYXBpSc/DSC03784.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/PrnvpyV9/DSC03785.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/76TbbJgn/DSC03786.jpg